MS1 or MS2 on a 90-93? - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


MEGAsquirt A place to collectively sort out this megasquirt gizmo

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 12-24-2009, 07:33 AM   #1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Belgium
Posts: 939
Total Cats: 59
Default MS1 or MS2 on a 90-93?

Friend of mine asked me to build a MS for his 90-93. There's a pretty standard begi kit on it, no boost control or anything.
I was thinking of getting a MS1 or would there be advantages on using MS2?
WestfieldMX5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-24-2009, 10:54 AM   #2
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago (Over two miles from Wrigley Field. Fuck the Cubs. Fuck them in their smarmy goat-hole.)
Posts: 26,315
Total Cats: 1,913
Default

For an NA, and especially a 1.6, the featureset differences are fairly small. The MS2 does offer a higher resolution in the fuel calculation, which can be helpful if you plan to pass an emissions test while running larger-than-stock injectors.

Its mode advances features will not be of much use to you. Running fully-sequential injector drive, for instance, would be great for a '94+ car. On your friend's '90-'93, he'd need to run a whole new fuel injection harness to take advantage of that.

The MS1, while not sexy and new, gets the job done.
Joe Perez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2009, 01:43 AM   #3
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Kennewick, WA
Posts: 67
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by f_devocht View Post
Friend of mine asked me to build a MS for his 90-93. There's a pretty standard begi kit on it, no boost control or anything.
I was thinking of getting a MS1 or would there be advantages on using MS2?
I currently have a 90 miata with ms2 up and running. It was alot of extra research for the 90-93 because most people just use the ms1 on those years. I had to take what was already figured out 100% for the ms1 and try to adapt it to the ms2. But if you do need to know how to install a ms2 let me know.
ubenpdon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2009, 09:22 AM   #4
Ben
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (33)
 
Ben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: atlanta-ish
Posts: 12,689
Total Cats: 99
Default

Sorry to disagree wtih Joe, but I feel that MS2 does offer enough differences in featureset and resolution to make it a worthwhile upgrade. I did not feel this way before I played with the software. As a bonus, it is a cheap upgrade (less than $100).

You don't have to run a 'whole new harness' for full sequential fueling; you just need to run 2 additional wires. This is worth 1-2 mpg. And you can still run seq spark too, which is awesome for when you go to better coils.
Ben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2009, 09:22 AM   #5
Ben
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (33)
 
Ben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: atlanta-ish
Posts: 12,689
Total Cats: 99
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ubenpdon View Post
I currently have a 90 miata with ms2 up and running. It was alot of extra research for the 90-93 because most people just use the ms1 on those years. I had to take what was already figured out 100% for the ms1 and try to adapt it to the ms2. But if you do need to know how to install a ms2 let me know.
You should do a little write-up.
Ben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2009, 10:03 AM   #6
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,819
Total Cats: 1,780
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
You should do a little write-up.
you mean like this:






it can also be found here: http://msextra.com/doc/ms2extra/MS2-Extra_4g63.htm
Braineack is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2009, 10:09 AM   #7
Ben
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (33)
 
Ben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: atlanta-ish
Posts: 12,689
Total Cats: 99
Default

Yes, like that. Easy enough.
Ben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2009, 10:12 AM   #8
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,819
Total Cats: 1,780
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
Yes, like that. Easy enough.
From that I took the DIYPNP basemap for the 1.8L (2.1.1b) and scaled the req_fuel and made other small changes.

I'll have my own MS upgraded by the end of the week, I have a board modded and my MSI msq converted, I just need to acquire the CPU this week. I'm still going to run parallel because I'm too lazy to build a standalone harness...well, i just ran out of 64-pin connectors and don't feel like ordering any. But really, I'm just letting the OEM ECU run idle, so whatever.

If you notice on my pictures I decided to use the traditional 2nd trigger input like we do on the MSI boards, not the optisolator circuit. You will also notice I put the .1uF cap on the daughterboard itself. There is an inline 1K current limiting resistor on the board (D9), so the cap needs to be after it. But both trigger inputs are simply 470ohm pulls-ups for each trigger.
Braineack is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2009, 10:31 AM   #9
Ben
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (33)
 
Ben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: atlanta-ish
Posts: 12,689
Total Cats: 99
Default

Cool. I tried to attach my .msq here, but I am short on storage space (already 20mb over limit). Think you could increase my limit?

PS, I just gave away (2) extra 64 pin headers that I got from online components to fluff out their minimum order requirements. Sorry, you should have said something a few days ago.
Ben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2009, 10:43 AM   #10
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,819
Total Cats: 1,780
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
Cool. I tried to attach my .msq here, but I am short on storage space (already 20mb over limit). Think you could increase my limit?

PS, I just gave away (2) extra 64 pin headers that I got from online components to fluff out their minimum order requirements. Sorry, you should have said something a few days ago.
did that work?

It's okay, I'll order some when I build another MS for someone. I just hate to order a min of 5 connectors and spend $40 just to sit on them for a while, I usually order 10 or so when I run out. I really have no problems with my parallel setup otherwise. I do want to mod it to run the fuel pump ground back through the AFM harness through something and then jump the connector back to the relay.
Braineack is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2009, 10:53 AM   #11
Ben
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (33)
 
Ben's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: atlanta-ish
Posts: 12,689
Total Cats: 99
Default

Yes, thank you.
Attached Files
File Type: msq 2009-12-25_18.12.38_autotune1.msq (72.7 KB, 138 views)
Ben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2009, 10:55 AM   #12
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,819
Total Cats: 1,780
Default

whoops, i need to d/l 3.0a

edit: sweet, i love seeing the 16x16 fuel maps... i plan on keeping the same amount of boost rows i have now, and get the added resolution in the cruising cells where it's finicky now.
Braineack is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2009, 11:28 AM   #13
Senior Member
iTrader: (6)
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Cocoa Beach, FL
Posts: 808
Total Cats: 3
Default

I went with MS2 on my '90 for sequential fuel and more I/O. If you're only going to build it like the MS1, it'll still give more resolution in the fuel calculations, but you're not really taking full advantage of the CPU. If he doesn't plan on upgrading anything and not using EBC or PWM idle, then it may not be worth the extra $90, but if you or he adds some of the extra goodies, it is.

What I have is:
sequential injection using the peak and hold driver board
wasted spark
2nd trigger input
closed loop PWM idle with upconverter board
fan control
knock sensing
baro correction
launch control
closed loop EBC
table switching off WI switch
TrickerZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2009, 11:35 AM   #14
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,819
Total Cats: 1,780
Default

I really don't feel like rewiring the injector harness for sequential injection, maybe down the road if I feel like another project. Otherwise I mainly wanted to upgrade for the EBC code.

Regardless, the CPU speed in itself should prove better on it's own. 16-bit 24Mhz vs. 8-bit 8 Mhz CPU, 100 times more fuel resolution, potential MSIII upgrade, can read up to 257*F, etc...
Braineack is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2009, 12:05 PM   #15
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 65
Total Cats: 0
Default

sorry im an MS noob... can ms1 be made to run sequential or as that a no-go
Aero91 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2009, 01:02 PM   #16
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Warrington/Birmingham
Posts: 2,658
Total Cats: 39
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aero91 View Post
sorry im an MS noob... can ms1 be made to run sequential or as that a no-go
No, mainly because there are no spare outputs.
richyvrlimited is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2009, 03:17 PM   #17
Junior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Evansville, Indiana
Posts: 314
Total Cats: 0
Default

Is that my MSII brain?
DrewLGT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2009, 03:18 PM   #18
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,819
Total Cats: 1,780
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrewLGT View Post
Is that my MSII brain?

correct. It's in the mail btw.
Braineack is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2009, 05:37 PM   #19
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Belgium
Posts: 939
Total Cats: 59
Default

what's the cap for? First time I see it mentioned.
WestfieldMX5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2009, 05:43 PM   #20
Boost Czar
iTrader: (61)
 
Braineack's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 72,819
Total Cats: 1,780
Default

Filters the 2nd trigger, needed with particular input, especially when we were running MS-I/HR, I believe the optisolator circuit uses a .01uF filter. The absence of this cap is part of what delayed the MSPNP9697 from getting on the market.
Braineack is online now   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Back to Stock Part Out!! Turbo Parts, MS2 Enhanced 01-05, Suspension, and MOAR! StratoBlue1109 Miata parts for sale/trade 16 10-02-2015 10:39 AM
mslabs MS2 - Idle control issue ndragun MEGAsquirt 0 09-20-2015 11:28 PM
1991 Turbo Miata partout tottestad Miata parts for sale/trade 18 09-14-2015 08:52 PM
FS: 90-93 radio surround, turn signal, TSI. iluvtruenos Miata parts for sale/trade 2 06-22-2007 09:23 AM


Tags
megasquirt, ms2

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:24 PM.