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MS2e Trigger Angle Issue/Error

 
Old 08-28-2018, 12:25 PM
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Default MS2e Trigger Angle Issue/Error

Sup fellas,

i am running a 99 miata bp with a 4/1 CAS from a Protege BP05, wasted spark 1.6 coilpack, ms2 with 3.1.1 firmware. Timing lines up correctly (with timing light) It runs fine currently with ignition settings:
  • 4/1 CAS
  • no prediction
  • trigger angle=75 degrees
  • trigger return=50 degrees
I tried to upgrade to the latest firmware 3.4.2 and i get a config error saying "trigger angle +/-20 limit", which forced me to reflash my firmware back to 3.1.1. I really want to run on the latest firmware.

Can i reduce my trigger angle to the "+/-20 limit" by twisting the CAS or what do you guys suggest? I tried 4g63 mode and it did not work. Please help out, i want to make sure i'm not leaving anything on the table by upgrading to the latest firmware.

Thanks in advance,
Jon
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Old 08-28-2018, 03:15 PM
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Old 08-28-2018, 11:17 PM
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The 4g63 config from DIY auto should work. I would verify the cam timing or look for a donor CAS to test. Did you do a timing belt at some point?

as a side note, I ran into the +/- 20 limit with a non standard crank trigger on a VVT. I basically had to build my own decoder to get the darn thing to work with the VVT CMP.
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Old 08-29-2018, 12:20 AM
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I checked engine timing with cyl1 plug out and everything is spot on. The only way to get the trigger angle under 20 was to retard the CAS all the way, a few mm past the bolt hole that holds the CAS to the head.(see pic). Can changing the trigger return angle help any?




I have a 99(I think, not sure) CAS but it does not output clean room signal, it goes from 0 to 150ish rpm, back and forth, no in between. Are there pots I can tune to get a clean signal?




Are you sure 4g63 mode will work with 4/1 CAS on wasted spark? I tried it yesterday but it didn't work.
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Old 08-29-2018, 02:09 AM
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The 4G63 config will not work with the 4/1 CAS, however if that newer CAS is from a Miata, you do need to use the 4G63 mode, and set the ignition input capture setting correctly (try both settings).
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Originally Posted by ninerwfo View Post
The “into to megasquirt thread” mentions that the MS3 basic has 5 inputs with built in pull up resistors - and I was just wondering why it would have so many, while the MS3Pro PnP has just 2 (with no pull ups?)
MS Labs: Plug and Play Megasquirt ECUs for ANY 90-05 Miata (NA, NB1, NB2 w/VVT, MSM), including basemaps to get you started ASAP. PM me or email or details.
For support on MS Labs ECUs: Please email, be sure to include the unit's serial number and include a datalog and your current map.
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Old 08-29-2018, 08:24 AM
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Oh man I totally flubbed my post, sorry. The Protoge CAS went right over my head.

What does the tooth logger give you? Does MS2 have toothed wheel options like MS3?
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Old 08-29-2018, 08:41 AM
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Ok, just pulled up an old 3.4.2 project, it looks like there are similar options. Is using this 4/1 CAS common? What are other people doing?

So using the high speed loggers, I created a profile that works with a totally different crank trigger and the stock miata VVT CMP, which is a bit wonky. I would think you would be able to do something similar. To go this route, you do need to be able to look at and interpret high speed data in the TS window, and possibly in another program like excel. Are you comfortable doing this? Can you read code? You can look at the source code to gain insight. The ms3pro manual has a pretty decent guide on how to setup non-standard triggers.
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Old 08-29-2018, 09:12 AM
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4/1 CAS is what comes on non Miata BP motors. I think the easiest route is to use a Miata CAS or stay on the same 3.1.1 firmware. My bp4w head is non vvt, forgot to specify.

Is there anyway to clean up the signal from this 99 Miata CAS (tuning pots, etc) or is it pretty much junk? What year Miata CAS is best recommended if I have to replace the ones I have?

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Jon
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Old 09-01-2018, 08:19 PM
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Ok I'm stumped.

Put the Miata CAS in, great rpm signal, no start.

ignition settings were (used DIYautotune):

Mode:4g63
Trigger angle:0
1st deriv prediction
Falling edge

Changed back to my Mazda protege 4/1 CAS

Ignition settings:

Mode:4/1 CAS
Trigger angle:35
Return angle:50
No prediction
Rising edge

Started right up. However, I can't get the trigger angle under 20, the CAS is physically all the way retarded (rotation-wise) and the lowest trigger angle I could get to was 35, which will not allow me to run the latest firmware 3.4.2, gives me a config error, so for now I'm still on 3.1.1

Any ideas anyone?
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Old 09-02-2018, 04:08 AM
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Did you check the timing with a timing light with the Miata CAS?
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Originally Posted by ninerwfo View Post
The “into to megasquirt thread” mentions that the MS3 basic has 5 inputs with built in pull up resistors - and I was just wondering why it would have so many, while the MS3Pro PnP has just 2 (with no pull ups?)
MS Labs: Plug and Play Megasquirt ECUs for ANY 90-05 Miata (NA, NB1, NB2 w/VVT, MSM), including basemaps to get you started ASAP. PM me or email or details.
For support on MS Labs ECUs: Please email, be sure to include the unit's serial number and include a datalog and your current map.
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Old 09-02-2018, 09:31 AM
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Couldn't get it to start with the miata CAS, only stumbles and backfires, so I didn't shoot the timing light. I'll try and play with the trigger angle in the settings to see if I can get it to start with the Miata CAS.
  • ​​​​​​Does the 99 bp4w head, non VVT have anything to do with it?
  • Why does tunerstudio limit +/-20 for trigger angle on the new firmware, but not on 3.1.1?
  • Is it worth it to upgrade to 3.4.2?
thanks again for your help,
Jon

Thanks in advance for your help.
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Old 09-02-2018, 11:48 AM
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For standard triggers wheels (ie anything non-generic wheel), the latest firmware versions have the wheel such that the timing is almost correct with an offset of 0. Going by that, +/-20 should be well enough to get your timing correct.Of course, the downside is that if there's some weirdness like say, using a CAS from a different car that happens to fit in your engine, then you may be out of luck.

Disable the injectors and the ignition, and try cranking for some time and see what you get in the composite logger with the Miata CAS. The 3.4.2 has some improvements which make the upgrade worthwhile, including much improved throttle response.
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Originally Posted by ninerwfo View Post
The “into to megasquirt thread” mentions that the MS3 basic has 5 inputs with built in pull up resistors - and I was just wondering why it would have so many, while the MS3Pro PnP has just 2 (with no pull ups?)
MS Labs: Plug and Play Megasquirt ECUs for ANY 90-05 Miata (NA, NB1, NB2 w/VVT, MSM), including basemaps to get you started ASAP. PM me or email or details.
For support on MS Labs ECUs: Please email, be sure to include the unit's serial number and include a datalog and your current map.
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Old 09-02-2018, 01:48 PM
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Fired up with the Miata cas by switching the plug wires on the coils. I could tell by the backfires I was getting in the intake.

My 4/1 cas was running with the plug wires/spark outputs swapped I guess?? Shrug

Everything is good now, firmware updated, timing is dead on with timing light.

Thanks,
Jon
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Old 09-02-2018, 01:53 PM
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Yay!
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Originally Posted by ninerwfo View Post
The “into to megasquirt thread” mentions that the MS3 basic has 5 inputs with built in pull up resistors - and I was just wondering why it would have so many, while the MS3Pro PnP has just 2 (with no pull ups?)
MS Labs: Plug and Play Megasquirt ECUs for ANY 90-05 Miata (NA, NB1, NB2 w/VVT, MSM), including basemaps to get you started ASAP. PM me or email or details.
For support on MS Labs ECUs: Please email, be sure to include the unit's serial number and include a datalog and your current map.
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