HowPrayGame

TL;DR

Was teaching a friend how to drive stick in a parking lot during a hot day. Car stalled/restarted around 10 times over a 1 hour period. Failure seems heat induced?

Car suddenly began acting as if it was losing sync/gauge cluster gauges all dropped back to 0 when driving, car lost all power as if MS was losing sync. Backfired, did this a few times with power coming back every few seconds, then cutting out again. Coasted to stop, parked car, car started once for 5 seconds before stalling once more. Now cranks forever with no catch in sight, MS doesn't see cam/crank signal or RPM. Cannot hear fuel pump priming normally when key is in on position, unsure if fuel pump primes without RPM/Cam/Crank signals from MS.

During one of the cranking attempts, after stopping cranking relays under the steering column began clicking rapidly for a few seconds. Ignition switch or fuel pump relay? Unsure if this is related.

Things I have tried

New Cam Sensor
Tightening/Cleaning of grounds
Partial repasting of ignition switch
Inspection of underhood and under passenger side fuses.
Replaced 60A Ign Fuse
Replacement of Main Relay under hood with new part

Composite logs taken during cranking are empty and devoid of cam/crank signals, no RPM ever read by ECU in Tunerstudio.

I have a multimeter to test relays/electricals however I will need to look up how to test each individual thing, not very good electrically.

I am going to go over the fuses again once more to see if I missed anything. Other than that I can't think of something that would cause symptoms like these. Is the fuel pump relay suspect at all? I struggle to think of what would lead to the car doing all of these things, and failing to report cam/crank signals to the ECU.

Ordered a new ignition switch that should be here on Wednesday due to the accessories/gauge cluster scuffing up during the stalling issue, and the potential for it to short other stuff when failing. Cheap enough to try and see if it works. Also ordered a fuel pump relay and a second main relay to keep as a spare.

curly

iTrader: (25)

Fuel pump primes regardless of cam/crank signal. I'd start there. You can check the fuel pump plug at the tank to see if you're getting 12v for 3 seconds, however since you're not seeing RPM in TS, most likely it's an ECU issue, not fuel pump issue. If you're connecting to take these logs, it means you've got 12v and ground to the MS. I'd try reloading your firmware and tune, and see if that changes anything.

HowPrayGame

Thanks for the suggestions, I tried reloading a tune I previously had, but not the firmware. I will get in contact with Rev to get the 1.4.0 firmware I have on it currently and reload it. The RPM not changing and constantly being 0 even when cranking is pretty big, thanks for confirming its probably ECU related.

Probing the fuel pump connector for 12v when it stops raining down here

HowPrayGame

Posting my current tune as I forgot to do so in the main post.

I believe the standard MS3 Basic utilizes the regular 1.4.0 firmware so I will try loading that. Worst case scenario I email Rev and have the proper firmware sent to me to reload it.

Have been running this with no issues for the past year, only issue that has persisted is occasional sync loss near redline when the cam sensor heats up, I just need to swap in the upgraded ballenger motorsports cam sensor to fix that. Once I get my car running again that is next, I miss wringing the car out to redline without losing sync.

HowPrayGame

OK, I did some stuff.

Replaced Ignition Switch
Reloaded 1.4.0 Firmware/Tune on MS
Verified 1 credit card gap between crank plate tab and crank sensor

MS still isn't receiving a RPM signal, cam, or crank signal. The battery is very low and I need to have it jumper cabled for a while to charge it back up before I try cranking it again, may even need a new battery at this point, its been on its last legs for a while.

I believe the fuel pump is now audibly priming when the key is in the on position for 3-5 seconds, I am now wondering if the battery being super low would cause issues with the MS receiving RPM/Cam/Crank signals.

Unsure what else to try now, probably just gonna go with the battery replacement thing and hope that works.

curly

iTrader: (25)

If you have a crank, no start situation, ever, the battery should be on a trickle charger at the very least 24/7.

@Reverant might be able to help you properly testing the cam and crank circuits.

HowPrayGame

Very good news

I had a friend jump my car and give it a few cranks. After cranking the car for 8 seconds the composite log filled out with some cam/crank inpulses, and it looks like my crank sensor thats a few months old has bitten the dust. Only signal I receive is one pulse at the end of the log, which doesn't mean anything except the MS isn't receiving any signal from the crank sensor. This also explains the zero RPM signal on the dash/MS.

Composite log is attached for viewing purposes, pretty sure this 100% indicates no crank sensor input. Surprised it died this quickly, I will try a different new sensor type this time.

Reverant

iTrader: (10)

Yes that looks like a bad crank sensor. They do go bad when they warm up. Usually, they start working again if they cool down, but that's not always the case.

HowPrayGame

Very not so good news

I replaced the crankshaft position sensor and the car exhibits the exact same issues as before. At this point I feel like an idiot, and I can only thing of two other things it could be, the wiring to the sensor or whatever interprets the crankshaft signal inside the ECU, perhaps a fuse or something inside the ECU.

The connector could also be bad, may bypass the connector.

I am thinking of swapping the ECU back to the OEM one to see if that cranks/starts successfully with the MAF sensor + OEM ECU, even without the narrowband O2 sensor installed (should just be pig rich)

Cranking log with no crankshaft sensor pulses attached.

HowPrayGame

Going to check the wiring harness from the main relay to the crankshaft position sensor connector.

One of the grounds on the TB was super loose and was likely clanging around before stuff broke, probably blew something.

DNMakinson

iTrader: (3)

You can try ignition and injector tests. That will verify general function of ECU. Under the CAN Test Mode tab in TS.

Overall, it does seem like a cam or crank sensor.

No fuses in those circuits. Also no trim pots to adjust on MS3-Basic from MS-Labs.

Put it battery on charger, as Curly said.

HowPrayGame

Charged up the battery some more with jumper cables. Car is dead in an apt parking lot so I cant leave it on a trickle charger sadly.

Used a multimeter to check the ground pin mentioned in my last post, had continuity so I think that's good.

Pulled the main relay and pin D and the CKP power pin also had continuity so the wires there are fine.

Leads aren't long enough to test continuity between ECU connector and ckp connector so assuming the wire is ok there for now.

Checking the fuel pump for 12v to verify that humming is actually the fuel pump priming and not my powered antenna motor.

Ordered a used oem crankshaft position sensor in the event that my car hates beck and arnley ckps.

Will report back in an hour or so if I dont have power to fp. Will test spark/fuel with tunerstudio if I do. Wish the ms saw a crank signal so I could drive again

HowPrayGame

Pulled the lid on the fuel pump, tested two of the pins that should have continuity on the fuel pump and they did. Car audibly primes the pump for 3 seconds after key hits on position. Safe to say the fuel pump relay or fuel pump isn't the problem.

Grabbed my spark plug socket for tomorrow to check for fuel in the cylinders after cranking, and will try checking for spark as well.

Still looking like an ECU or Crank sensor being DOA issue sadly. Hoping for the best

HowPrayGame

Going to swap in the OEM ECU + MAF and see if the car starts, see if the MS Crank sensor interpreting bits are messed up.

May try opening the MS and see if anything sticks out if the OEM ECU starts up fine.

HowPrayGame

Well, the MS is fine.

OEM ECU + MAF swapped in, car cranks and fails to start. Same symptoms as before, zero RPM/Tach activity. No stored engine codes, as it hasn't run/cranked long enough to store anything. Car was cranking very strong, battery is fine for now after charging it for a while.

So its either a wiring to ECU issue, connector issue between crank sensor and connector, or a second dead crank sensor.

At this point, as I have the OEM ECU in and the car should at least crank and run, I will probably have this towed to my mechanic. Didn't want to bring it to the dude with a megasquirt installed instead of an OEM ECU.

I am amazed that I haven't found the faulty part/issue, just ready for the car to run again. I bet it is something extremely stupid/easy to fix that I overlooked.

curly

iTrader: (25)

Can you take a good quality video of it cranking?

DNMakinson

iTrader: (3)

I presume you have wired the wastegate open.

HowPrayGame

Sure, here is a video of me trying to start the car on the OEM ECU last night.


Car is naturally aspirated on oem injectors. MAF is in the OEM Location + with OEM Airbox attached

HowPrayGame

Fix has been found, the second sensor I installed slipped on the 1 pivot bolt and wasn't gapped appropriately. I tried moving it by hand and the sensor pivots around with very little force. Tightened it up with a credit card between a tab and the car started fine on the OEM ECU.

The car wasn't seeing any crank signals as it was too far to register. I knew it was something stupid because it always is.

I am willing to bet this is also the cause of my intermittent sync loss issue at redline, engine shakes a ton, shakes enough to throw off the crank sensor reading, sync loss.

Using threadlocker on that damn bolt before I put the MS back in and start it.

UPDATE- Car also starts on MS just fine. Thanks for the help everyone