MS3 + MS3X for Mk1 1.8
 

Planning on building this sometime and have trawled through reams of information.

I'll need:
MS330K
MS 23" wiring bundle
MS3x
DB37 for the MS3X
23" wiring bundle for MS3X
Wideband LC1 + G5
IAT Kit w/ally bung

This CABLE :idea:

Anything else to add???

If I follow the msextra Guide, what to do in sections 26,27,28. I'll want to run as much as possible from MS3X board, IGN, Inj, Cam, A/C, Idle and Fans.
Step 22, Do I leave out Q16 and jump R43 ?

If I follow Franks' guide,
Step 50, Do I install his Cam/Crank circuit even though I'll use the MS3x Cam ???
Step 65, as per 22 above. Also IGBTIN to JS10 and IGBTOUT to IGN ???
Would I also need to do the PWM converter mod?

Please bear in mind I am nowhere near an electronics expert :noob:

P.S. It's a 1995 Eunos V-SpecII

After more reading and help from Braineack, the V3,0 board should look like this with the 4g63 CAS circuit.

Now to sort out the jumpers.

For the 4g63 it's:
TSEL to OPTO OUT
TACHSELECT to XG1
5v from PROTO to top hole of C30

Other Jumps:
s12c to JS9 ? Yes
IAC1A to JS10 ? Yes
5v to JS10 + 470R ? Yes
Pull up Mods ????? Noooooooooooo.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Yes, or any circuit you use from the 'IAC' pins won't work


No, that's the cam input for the V3 board, you're getting the MS3x so use the cam input on that instead

Pull up Mods ?????
[/QUOTE]

The pull up mods you are on about are probably ignition out, as above don't bother and use the MS3x instead.

you have to build the input circuit for the NB crank already. Build it for the cam too and save the MS3X cam input for something fun like traction control.

For the 4G63 input circuit follow this:

http://www.boostedmiata.com/gallery2..._0001_mods.jpg


R12 gets a 470ohm resistor.


http://www.boostedmiata.com/gallery2..._0003_mods.jpg

and do the mods in RED, GREEN, and PURPLE.

It's an NA...

oh whoops... change "NB crank" to "NA CAS". the circuit is different but for sequential I still like the idea of using the main board tsel and js10 for standard inputs and letting the xpander do more fun things.

Cheers guys and thanks again Brain, I wasn't sure of the RED jumps.
Although Richy has a point, I was going to use the CAM input on the 3X.

p.s. edited other post.:)

Just did a check on 3X Wiring
http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms3/spareports.html#wiring

Part of reply from DIYautotune
"and any of your medium current outputs (24, 6, 25, 26, 27, but I'd save 9 for the IAC valve) may be used for fan or A/C output."

Doesn't mention relay switch or driver but the guide sounds like I'll have to build the circuits, where though?

youll use the built in driver on MS3x. like a spare INJ driver for fan.

Thanks Brain, oooooooooooo six spare to choose from now which one to use :laugh:
Might be best to use one for Air Con as well.

I have a box of bits, not to find the time to assemble :x:

Does R12 have to be a 1/2W 5% resistor or can I use one the same as the jumper from 5v to JS10 - 470R, 1/4W, 1%.

i use 1/4watt 5%

Glad I checked the resistors, the muppets at Maplin gave me 470K, swapped them for 1/2w 470 5%, so no problems now :x:
Part way through, and for my first circuit board, I reckon I've got some really neat solders :) Does help being a goldsmith ;)

Can someone double check this loom set up before I make a huge cock up.
Not 100% sure on the ones highlighted in blue.

Bump, anyone ??? Brain??? not 100% sure I'll be wiring the fans and AC up properly.

Built my MS3 now and also a JimstimX, just need to benchtest.

Attachment 188447
Attachment 188448
Attachment 188449
Attachment 188450

Am I correct in saying you do not jump 1Q to 1J or 1L to 2S
1Q= A/C Output, goes to pin 29 on the 3X for A/C input to the MS
1J= A/C Input, goes to pin25 on the 3X for A/C output from the MS
2S= A/C Fans, driven by pin 20 on 3X Inj H driver
1L= Fans Cooling, driven by pin 1 on 3X Inj G driver
2K= 5v Ref connect to pin 25 on the MS3

I'll have wideband o2 so 2N=OEM NB is not connected ?

That looks really tidy, do you do lots of soldering?

Sure do, but it's usually gold or silver with a gas/oxy torch.
Smallest pieces of solder I use go down to less than 0.2 Sq MM and approx 0.1mm thick. That's for really lightweight chains, eyes are on the way out so I'm starting to have to use an opti-visor for the real small stuff.

Been studying the Madracki.com wiring diagrams (very useful) and it appears 2f and 1k are also sensor grounds.
Is there any reason not to use them as well to spread out the loom a bit?

Rather than a new thread, I am going to bump this old thread because I have a couple of questions related to this wiring setup.

1) I set my board up exactly like Freaky Roadster (MS3 with MS3X for a '94), and my wiring is very similar as well. This shows running the fuel pump off of the MS3 pin 37 (as do all MS guides). However, what circuitry on the board runs the pump? I did not add any transistors, so I'm curious as what exactly is fuel pump related on the MS3 board. For reference:

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1327690965

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1327690965

2) Can you run two injectors off of a single MS3X injector output? This link states, "MS3X fuel - Use the MS3X expansion board's outputs to drive the fuel injectors. Only one injector should be used per output. " I believe the MS3X injector outputs are rated to 5A, so is this adequate to drive two injectors? Eventually I'll go sequential, but I'm just trying to get started with a stock car for now.

The FP driver on the main board consists of R16, R40, Q2, Q19, and D4. These are all clearly installed in the first of the two images which you posted:

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1327692400

Specifically, Q2 provides a closure to ground to turn the pump on. R16 is between it and the CPU. R40 and Q19 form a protection circuit which limits the maximum current that can flow through Q2, and D4 is a zener diode installed as a flyback diode.



I can't imagine why you'd want to, however I also can't imagine why you could not, provided they they are high-impedance injectors. A typical hi-z injector will have a steady-state current draw of only about 1 to 1.5A.

Thanks Joe. I have a better understanding of both of my questions now.

Dude, go sequential now. Your 94 already has individual wires for each injector in the stock harness to the ECU. All you have to do is move the two existing wires and then run two new (short) wires to the MS3X and change of couple of settings in TS. You don't have to touch anything under the hood. To leave you no excuse I'll even spoon/force-feed you everything you need to know.

Wiring:
InjA = pin 19 to 2U (yel)
InjB = pin 16 to 2Y (grn/wht)
InjC = pin 13 to 2Z (grn)
InjD = pin 10 to 2V (yel/blk)

Then under "engine & sequential settings" in TS,
main fuel outputs = MS3X fuel
sequential on = fully sequential
angle specifies = end of squirt
Firing order is A=1, B=3, C=4, D=2
Done.

Whichever route you go, make sure to add ground wires to the MS3X connector- pins 2, 3, 8, 12 and 17. If you don't, your car will probably run like crap. BTDT.

Thanks. After I read Joe's post I looked through the car's wiring diagram and realized each injector has an individual wire. I am definitely going sequential fuel. I think in my head I was getting fuel and spark confused. Regardless, I appreciate the help.


-Mike

Also for future searchers benefit, the information Scott mentioned is all available in the link I posted in my original post.

Just as an FYI, it appears that you are using the OPTO input circuit for the crank sensor as per the instructions in post #2.

Don't do that.

Honestly, that circuit is horrible and should die in a fire.

Build (and use) the VR circuit instead. Connect TachSelect to VrIn, and VrOut to Tsel. Adjust R56 so that you get about 2.5 volts at R54. Apply a 1k pullup from Vcc to TachSelect.

Ok, embarrassment time, still not had the time to install it.:loser:

So the VR is superior than the 4g63 set up, what do I need to unplug before installing the VR mods on the V3 board? Help needed please Joe due to being in a hazy alcoholic induced stupor.:beer:

first you need to populate the VR circuit, or just go on with it--since it works.

Freaky Roadster, follow this link.

Cheers guys, added the VR + Pull Up circuit but left in the 4g63 components as it's a pain getting stuff out safely.
Pulled Tachselect to XG1
Pulled TSEL to OPTOUT
Pulled 5v to top of C30

Do I pull IAC1A to JS10 and 5v to JS10 through 470 Ohm resistor or leave them in?

Do I change any settings in TunerStudio? Currently set to 4g63

Just found that Frank's used one of my pics on his MS2 90-97 album, must have been impressed by the neatness.

You are correct sir. When I come across a picture that's more clear or more tidy than what I have, I usually steal it ;).
In the case of a 90-97, I need to steal it all as I haven't actually built one. I just gather the info for my build how-to's, hoping someone can benefit from them. FWIW, I used one of Stucky's pics as well :D.

No problem Frank, some people get a bit nasty when using pictures without consent but I'm glad it was of use for you.

For my last questions in post #33, no mention of using the jumpers and pull up from 5v to JS10 to IAC1A on your build, so I reckon I'll disconnect that.

No idea though, if I need to change Tunerstudio settings from 4g63 to ??? or leave it.

If you use the MS3X VR circuit + pullup for your cam in, then you don't need JS10 on the mainboard, so you can remove that stuff. The type of input circuit has no effect on the wheel decoder so leave it at 4G63.

Thank you very much :cool:

After looking at the way you have the loom connector built into the box, I was wondering if it's also possible to lay out the MS3 and 3X side by side to the V3 board. Possibly using jumper wires to a break out board for the 40 pin connections. Or maybe some type of ribbon cable.

I remember some people having problems in where to put the MS3 due to the extra thickness of the box.

You could build a cable like this http://ist.uwaterloo.ca/~schepers/1541par.html

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1329930248
Or you can get creative and move the map sensor away from the underside and lower the mainboard one or 2 steps, creating more room on top for the MS3 board.
Then try to lower the MS3 cpu as much as possible by either removing one of extra 40 pin dips or using a 40pin dip with very long pins so you can adjust the height.
It'll be a close fit, but you might be able to squeeze the MS3 board in a normal height case that way. The usb connector is a big wart though.
And of course you'd still have to find a solution for the X.

That's the sort of idea I had, nice find.
I think the boards would go side by side, V3 to the right and MS3 and 3X to the left. Each side being one half of the MS3 box. Then figure out best place for the 64 pin connector.
That's just a little idea to mull over.;)

Thought I'd try plugging into my Mac and bingo, I have comms connection.
Running through Belkin clip on hub usb to usb.
I always thought that you needed to run it through a usb/db9 cable to work with a Mac.

the on board usb is a sub-> serial connector.

Digging up the post,

So freaky, is it running now?

Hi abs, nope it's not fitted yet. Been so busy that I've not had a chance so looks like I'll get a fairly local guy (Skuzzle on MX5Nutz) to fit it once I've got a few other bits sorted.

Thanks for the answer