MS3x Questions
 

I'm following: 90-97 MS3 | Frank's Westfield MX5 90-97 MS3 |

But my setup is a tiny bit different so I wanted to clarify some things. (pin corresponds to the diagram below)

1. I plan to run full sequential, injectors and ignition. I have 4 ignitors that will use 4 spark outputs on the expansion. Do I use a tach output from the expansion to the gauge cluster for my gauge tach? Is that Pin 26 on the expansion?

2. Pin 30 can go to a switch, which then goes to ground which will allow data logging when the switch is grounded?

3. Found answer.

4. In the MS3 assembly in the link above, this:
Step 9: jumpers
- jumper S12C to JS9
- jumper TACHSELECT to VRIN
- jumper VROUT to TSEL

is just a wire going from each of these locations ON the actual MS3?

5. And same as above, this:
Part 3: Wiring
Step 1: flyback diodes
Install a 1N4001 with the banded side to 12V and the other side to the idle output of the MS3X (pin 9).
Install a 1N4001 with the banded side to 12V and the other side to the fan output of the MS3X (pin 1).
Install a 1N4001 with the banded side to 12V and the other side to the a/c fan output of the MS3X (pin ).

Is done on the actual harness NOT the ms3x? Also the fan output says pin 1... that is INJ G on the MS3x... Am I missing something here? Also I'm not using a/c, so I'm going to say there is no reason to install the 1N4001 for that?

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1376630559

Also one last thing... The transistors were a pain with the leads being so close. I had to repair some solder that jumped leads and the transistor got quite hot in the process. Should I be worried? I didn't apply heat for more than 5-6 seconds before letting it cool down. But it was def too hot to touch for a second or two.

1. depends if your ignitors have a tach signal or not. If not (likely), use the MS tach output to drive your gauge.
2. yes, if you use that pin in the TunerStudio settings
3. great
4. yes, see pictures in my writeup
5. doesn't matter but I do it in the harness (actually on the connector) and not always on the pcb. The reason being that flyback currents can be high and it's not uncommon that they burn out a trace on the pcb. Thus play safe and do it on something that can handle high current (wiring / connector)
I'm using inj G as the fan output in my particular setup (and in the msq provided on my site). You may choose any free pin that you like (and can deliver at least 500mA).

Thank you. Your website has been a life saver. You rock. :makeout:

Can I assume:
- C1, C3, C18, C19, C239 (0.1µF)

Is C23 and C29?

Don't see 29 on the layout, so I guess just 23.

Yes, that's a typo. C23 is correct. C29 is not needed.

Thanks.

I'm using the Knock Sense and I have it mounted to the MS3 like so:
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1377060918

Is there a way I can wire in the K1 so it can be used with the DB37?


ALSO: Do they really only hold the MS3 board in with 2 screws? The third one on the other side seems very important. I evened out the two screws as best I could, but even so it's easy to lift the other side of the board up. Although I haven't mounted it yet in the case.. maybe it's better... but I think not because that is the side where the SD card is.

You have plenty of options: Spare 1, 2, 3, 4, IAC1A, 1B, 2A, 2B.

i dont understand your last question. once the daughterboard is plugging in and screwed into the heatsink standoffs, it's not going anywhere.

So I can just run the wire from K1 to SPR4 and then I can use the SPR4 output on the DB37 for the knock sensor?

The last question the MS3 board just seemed like there should be a support on the opposite side from the standoffs.

correct.

the board was originally designed for the ms3. the 64 pin socket plus the two screws is enough. Don't worry about it.

One tip I have for you: when you assemble, loosely attach the expander and mainboard to the end plate and slide into the case. Then add the endplate on the sd/usb side and screw the end plates in. Then tighten the studs and dont overtighten them.

Excellent. Hopefully I'll get to test this thing out on the stim today.

you'll have to run your second trigger to pin 32 of the expander to get a sync.

Like such:

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1377094841

How does that work if I built a JimStimX too. I still haven't done much research past building all these things, but getting there.

ALSO lol at the cat hair on that stim, that is what a miata turbo owner stim should look like.

Looks like you'd connect the jumper from the 2nd trigger of the stim to the cam pin of the stimx.


I wonder how that happened:

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1377095891

Here are some photos. If anything looks wrong it's probably cause I really have no idea what I'm doing.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1377096138

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1377096138

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1377096138

you need u6 and c26-29 else the USB and/or serial port won't work.

are you going to install flyback didoes for idle control and boost control outputs somewhere on the board, or the harness?

and double check that c16,17,22 are all correct polarity.

wut.. This wasn't anywhere in the Westfield guide.

On the harness

Triple checked and good.

I noticed Frank had a verison of the components map with those omitted. I had an experience where u6 was damaged/shorted and the USB port didn't work. you're probably okay if it was simply omitted and not shorted/damaged in my case.

in any case, the serial port is disabled without those, just fyi.

Ah that makes sense. I'm still trying to understand the circuitry better so I know WHY I'm installing various things, and leaving others out. This is the first PCB I've assembled since high school so it's a bit of an adventure.

haha.

actually, you're missing the vrout to tsel jumper.


and i cant tell but it appears you have the s12c jumper, but i can't see where it's going, possibly to js5 and not js9???

All my jumpers are on the bottom... is that okay? Also that photo may have been before I added them.

definitely not in the photo. top or bottom bitch, whatever, that's personally preference ;)

did you see what i said about the s12c jumper?

This is what I have done:
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1377099917
lol at my shitty solder job. the light makes it look worse.

ah. okay, that's what i saw. cool.

So I'm going to omit U6 and the c26-29 since I wont' be using the serial port at all. Hopefully this b works. Almost done. WIll find out how much I fail today.

Do you have a base map?

I haven't looked to find one. I'd imagine I will have trouble finding something for 1200cc injectors, dw300 and stock 1.6. But can probably adjust it enough to atleast get it started and tuning. Trying to figure out how to use this Jimstim for now, and figuring out what you mean by this syncing I need to do.

Okay it detected the MS3 over USB and says it has firmware 1.2 on it already. I guess the current is 1.2.3? It's flashing to that now. So far so good................

Uh also holy shit the westfield site is no more? Welp glad I just about finished this MS3x.

Also I'm using this for my msq: https://www.miataturbo.net/megasquir...-signal-69409/

A lot of errors since the firmware was older, so I still have to go through and set everything up for the most part.

Okay I have a red box on the bottom of TunerStudio that says "Not Ready" and no tach.

I have JP7 jumped, and 2.39v from the 2 pots, and 2&3 on the DIP switch are on.

What do?

Okay noticed that on the StimX injector A-D will flash in sequence once, and then Injector G LED stays lit. The Idle LED is also lit.

Okay small update. After removing the JP8 (it said it didn't matter if it was used or not, it came with it installed so I left it) the IGN G LED does not come on.

When I power on the JimStim INJ A-D flash in sequence and then nothing.

Not sure if anyone saw my question about q22/q23... but if I overheated those while soldering would this cause my issue? Or if there was a bridge? Those legs were so close it's hard to tell if solder is shorting the legs.

It's working bitches! Turns out you need to read the directions for the jimstim.

I'm back. So for my CAS... where do I wire those wires in to the MS? I am building a harness from scratch so I'm not just plugging in my stock wiring harness. I see the expander has a CAM input and the MS has an input as well.

I'm about to check out and see if it's clear on the wiring diagram which goes where. But if anyone just wants to save me some time and tell me what color wires go to which pin on the MS and expander I will be happy.

Crank is mainboard pin like 6. Cam is 32 on ms3x. The diagram I made that you have shows it... they are labeled.

I understood which pins for the MS the cam and crank go to. But since they both come from the CAS I was unsure of which of the 4 wires went to which pins. I see from the MS3x 90-93 1.6 harness wiring diagram of yours its:

Y/L - Pin 32 Cam IN - MS3x
W - Pin 24 Crank IN - MS mainboard (for some reason it says pin 25 on yours but the diagram shows pin 24)
B - Pin 1 Ground

Then:

W/R - Main Relay

i guess i'm unsure what your issue is.

There is no issue now. Although is there a reason you wrote pin 25?

i messed up? cam used to be on pin 25, im sure i was confused.

Your cat probably changed it when you weren't looking. Sabotage.

never! my cats love me. they leave me hairballs and dingleberries all over the house as gifts.

You know what they say about keeping your enemies close... they just want you to think they love you. UNTIL THEY TAKE OVER THE WORLD.

last night my cat woke me up just before the power went out at around 1:15am.

it's a sign.

The shielded wire that goes to pin 24... from the white wire on CAS, there are two (black and white) wires inside the shield on the MS wire, and then one bare wire outside. Am I just connecting both black and white wires to the White wire on the CAS?

oh i dunno, i don't use the shielded wires. You can do that, but i think the intent was you could run both cmp and cmk back through that one shielded wire.

Ah yea you are right. Pin 24 in the input (white wire in the twisted pair) and Pin 1 is is the ground (black wire in the twisted pair). Makes more sense now that I look at the diagram again. Looks like Pin 2 is the outside bare wire in the shielded wire?

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1377692631

pin 1 and 2 are grounds. so that assumes you are wiring the sensors completely to the MS.

right now the CAS already has a ground to black/lt green.


anyways, the stock signals aren't shielded, so you really don't need it yourself. I use that unlabled black/white wire in the loom for my crank sensor to the CAS, and the pin32 cam in on the MS3X bundle.

I have the spark plugs with no internal resistor. Which I hear can cause noise on things like the CAS. So I figured I'd do as much as I could to prevent any noise.

Bringing this back to confirm my tach setup.

I have 4 coils, that are driven by 4 ignitors. Is my tach going to be as simple as running the tach output wire to the correct input on the gauge cluster?

^ Thats what I did, works perfectly! Then its just a matter of getting your settings right. You can even test it in the output test mode window to makre sure its working properly.

yes.

if you still have some of the stock wiring, you can send the tachout to 2I, the b/w wire. then in the ignitor connection, just tie the b/w and y/b wires together.

I think I get what you are saying. I have no stock engine wiring. Basically you are saying I can wire the tach output to the ignitor input at the gauge cluster (yellow/black).

yers. (yellow/blue)

shit, yea.

Okay bros. I have problems.

THE GOOD
1. I have 12v at the 80amp breaker.
2. I have 12v at the 80amp relay.
3. With key on I have 12v at the fuse box that holds the fuses for all the power for MS related things.
4. I have 12v on the other side of all the fuses.
5. The car cranks over, and the starting circuit works.

THE BAD:
1. I hear no fuel pump.
2. The MS won't connect to my laptop.
3. I think it isn't even turning on.

EXTRA INFO:
The MS connects, and functions as it should when it is connected to the JimStim

So what could be causing the MS to not turn on when I have verified switched 12v going to the MS? The grounds are also good. They all go the engine block and are connected to the engine mount bolts that bolt to the block.

Step one I guess is disconnecting the engine bay harness to isolate the harness a bit. It's possible something is shorted, but no fuses have blown.

Okay scratch all of the above.

I have connected to the MS3x. It powers up and detects all the sensors. The TPS is not working right but I think it needs to be calibrated.

But still I have no fuel pump :(

I think I might have forgot to connect it when I installed it. So that will be my next thing I check.

F/P to GND in the diagnostic box? Or did you eliminate it? I forget and I'm too lazy to read the whole thread right now.

No stock harness left.

I bypassed the relay and ran power straight to the pump and it works with key on. Of course it stays running, but at least I know it's something with the relay, or MS triggering the relay.

But even with the fuel pump bypassed it still doesn't start.

I'm not too worried yet as I'm really not to that point yet.


NEW QUESTIONS:
If I set firing order to 1342, do I still need to wire up the spark plugs/injectors as A1 B3 C4 D2? Because that is how I did it, and what I thought I read somewhere. But if you can change the firing order on the MS what is the point of not just wiring it up A1 B2 C3 D4, won't the MS firing in the correct order? ADBC..

Or do they not have anything to do with each other?

My TPS is reading like 55 at closed, and 10 at WOT. Clearly I fucked something up. I tried to find the wire color for power/ground/signal but nothing was very clear. I should have checked resistance before wiring it up :( Oh well, I'll be adding that to the list.


Okay doing some research here and looks like you need to wire them up according to firing order. Setting firing order in TS doesn't change the order the MS fires the injectors and spark.

Now to figure out the TPS.

This is what I'm getting for wiring up the TPS, so time to double check:
Pin 1-black wire-5volt in
Pin 2-shielded wire-ground
Pin 3-yellow wire-signal out

Okay double checked and this is how I wired it. Sigh.

Admittedly I have no idea what I'm doing. Car cranks smoothly. No stutter or any attempt to start. I need to set base timing still but it should be pretty damn close. I'm guessing no spark, or fucked up spark. Is there a good way to test besides just laying a connected spark plug on the valve cover and cranking away lol

Yes I know my TPS signal is all fucked up.

Also while cranking I'm getting e9 on my wideband, low voltage. The battery should have plenty of voltage as I just recharged it and the MS doesn't have any issues. But I shouldn't even need the wb02 to start anyways right?

Here is a log, and my msq.

Please advise.

Setup for those that don't now:
1. No turbo, naturally aspirated with stock header + MTX-L wideband
2. Wideband just calibrated per innovate
3. IGN-1 coils (4) with 4 ignitors. I wired them up 1342
4. 1200c five-o injectors wired up 1342. I have fuel.
5. NGK spark plugs, brand new.
6. MS3x

FUCK YES.

It runs. data log below.

I had reversed the coil neg and pos. Mother fucking hell yes.

But the TPS is still fucked so can't do much beyond start it.

FUuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck yesssssssssssssssssssss

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1380398943