MSII getting 16x16 tables soon - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


MEGAsquirt A place to collectively sort out this megasquirt gizmo

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 05-25-2007, 06:45 AM   #1
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Warrington/Birmingham
Posts: 2,658
Total Cats: 39
Default MSII getting 16x16 tables soon

I think I'm going to wait till August/September then I'll give Jerry my bank details again

http://www.msextra.com/viewtopic.php?p=159347#159347
richyvrlimited is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2007, 11:41 AM   #2
Lex
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 181
Total Cats: 0
Default

I think I will wait until MS3 to do a big upgrade - full sequential injection and COP ignition
Lex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2007, 06:51 PM   #3
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Warrington/Birmingham
Posts: 2,658
Total Cats: 39
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lex View Post
I think I will wait until MS3 to do a big upgrade - full sequential injection and COP ignition
MSII isn't a bit upgrade though, it'll be worth if for the better injection and ignition resolution. Plus the soon to come bigger tables

MS3 is definately on the cards tho, Ion sensing is where it's at!
richyvrlimited is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2007, 07:11 PM   #4
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 457
Total Cats: 0
Default

Sequential Injection doesnt that fail at high RPM due to the valves not being open long enough?
LunaticDriver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2007, 07:16 PM   #5
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Warrington/Birmingham
Posts: 2,658
Total Cats: 39
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LunaticDriver View Post
Sequential Injection doesnt that fail at high RPM due to the valves not being open long enough?
it's pretty inconsequential at higher rpms yes, but it's good for emmisions economy and general smooth running around town.
richyvrlimited is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2007, 08:57 PM   #6
Lex
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 181
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LunaticDriver View Post
Sequential Injection doesnt that fail at high RPM due to the valves not being open long enough?
You will still spray in the back of a valve, but you will be doing this at the same time during the cycle of each cylinder.
Lex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2007, 09:03 PM   #7
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Warrington/Birmingham
Posts: 2,658
Total Cats: 39
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lex View Post
You will still spray in the back of a valve, but you will be doing this at the same time during the cycle of each cylinder.
at low rpms this is true, but at higher rpms, not necessarily, you just can't inject fast enough to be able to.

Quote:
he benefits of sequential injection are that:

* you may get slightly better mileage and lower emissions at low engine speeds,
* you can tune each cylinder's fuel amount independently (if you know how).

The effect on maximum horsepower is general negligible.

However, sequential injection does not necessarily mean you are injecting into an open intake valve all the time. The intake valve is only open less than 30% of the time in a typical 4 stroke engine. Once you are trying to produce more than about 25% of maximum HP your injectors are firing for longer than the intake valves are open. If your maximum HP is correctly calibrated to a safe 80% duty cycle, your injectors are injecting well over 50% of the time on closed valves. With MegaSquirt, fuel is injected on ignition events only, and while these are loosely related to cam events, it is a complex relationship, Try to 'squirt' through an open valve under all conditions is generally a bit hopeless, because:

* fuel that is injected when the valve is closed doesn't go anywhere, it just sits near the valve vaporizing until the next time the valve opens (some OEMs deliberately squirt against a closed valve to improve vaporization). So squirting against a closed valve does not generally affect the AFR for that cylinder (though there may be a small effect on the combustion quality, good or bad, depending on the port wall temperatures, etc.)
* the valve is generally effectively open (0.050") less 300 of a 720 4-stroke cycle (and closer to 200 for 'stock' engines). So hitting the open valve requires precise cam related timing,
* to inject the full fuel charge at high loads/RPMs through an open valve requires very, very larger injectors, about 2.5 to 4 times larger than is usually recommended,
* as the duty cycle for the injectors rises, the injectors come closer and closer to squirting all the time, and injection timing becomes irrelevant.

However, for those applications for which sequential injection is desirable to maximize idle stability and smoothness, lower emissions, and make incremental improvements to cruise fuel economy, Bowling and Grippo are working on a 'router board' for MegaSquirt-II which WILL do sequential injection (and can be used to operate COP ignition systems as well). It will likely not be released until mid-2007.
I'd forgotten that sequential will be available at some point on MSII aswell

this is where direct injection has advantages over port injection, it's 1 squirt at exactly the right time per cylinder
richyvrlimited is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2007, 09:18 PM   #8
Lex
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 181
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by richyvrlimited View Post
at low rpms this is true, but at higher rpms, not necessarily, you just can't inject fast enough to be able to.
of course you can inject at the same time for each cylinder ... I am not saying the valve is open, I did say in the back of the valve.
Lex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2007, 09:21 PM   #9
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Warrington/Birmingham
Posts: 2,658
Total Cats: 39
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lex View Post
of course you can inject at the same time for each cylinder ... I am not saying the valve is open, I did say in the back of the valve.
yeah my bad sorry, I really should go to bed, it's half 1 in the morning and I really don't know what I'm doing up!
richyvrlimited is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-25-2007, 09:23 PM   #10
Lex
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 181
Total Cats: 0
Default

no worries, I'm just about to leave work have a good night!
Lex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2007, 03:50 PM   #11
Senior Member
iTrader: (5)
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 715
Total Cats: 53
Default

COP is already available. Sequential injection is a waste as far as i am concerned. It works at very low RPM's but at mid-high RPM's is essentially same as bank injection. Nothing will be gained.
bcrx7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2007, 04:02 PM   #12
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Warrington/Birmingham
Posts: 2,658
Total Cats: 39
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bcrx7 View Post
COP is already available. Sequential injection is a waste as far as i am concerned. It works at very low RPM's but at mid-high RPM's is essentially same as bank injection. Nothing will be gained.
you just contradicted yourself there, you will gain, it'll be a smoother and more economical engine at lower RPMs.
You'll probably gain 3-4 mpg on the combined cycle, who wouldn't want that?
richyvrlimited is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2007, 04:25 PM   #13
Senior Member
iTrader: (5)
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 715
Total Cats: 53
Default

by lower rpms i mean under 6-700 rpm. i guess you spend quite a bit of time there to get your car started. ask the guys that switch the wiring on their link to sequential, no noticable change.
bcrx7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2007, 08:22 PM   #14
Elite Member
iTrader: (13)
 
cjernigan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 8,147
Total Cats: 6
Default

Or you could ask the guy that wired up his Tec 3 for sequential and noticed great improvement over banked injection. sbrian maybe?
cjernigan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2007, 10:36 PM   #15
Lex
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 181
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bcrx7 View Post
by lower rpms i mean under 6-700 rpm. i guess you spend quite a bit of time there to get your car started. ask the guys that switch the wiring on their link to sequential, no noticable change.
hey, you're here too

I was hoping to see a smoother, easier to tune idle with the sequential injection.
Lex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2007, 11:07 PM   #16
Senior Member
iTrader: (5)
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 715
Total Cats: 53
Default

It's the better resolution that is needed Lex. And it doesn't help if you don't have an idle valve. I am upgrading to MS-2 in the next couple of weeks and we will see how that goes. Although my idle is as smooth as stock, if not better and i am running 550's.
bcrx7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2007, 05:39 AM   #17
Lex
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 181
Total Cats: 0
Default

my idle is smooth as stock as well except when it's cold (because of no idle valve) but I have to run it a bit richer or it will pop. What I'd like is an idle closer to stoich that is smooth.

I got my 550s in as well and will be putting them in a couple weeks. Let me know how much better the MS2 is.
Lex is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
MS PNP requires reading and following directions??? satisfied MEGAsquirt 141 10-06-2015 11:44 AM
VE analyze and Autotune seems funny (noob) TorqueZombie MEGAsquirt 64 09-18-2015 06:03 PM
mm0105 TABLE SWITCHING WIRING? slomiata MEGAsquirt 2 09-15-2015 01:54 PM
VE values too low? compuw22c MEGAsquirt 4 09-12-2015 08:42 PM
ME221 Now has Autotune and Long Term Fuel Trim Tables Motorsport-Electronics ECUs and Tuning 0 09-05-2015 09:02 AM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:06 PM.