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Old 06-23-2007, 11:44 PM   #1
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Default MSPNP ignition setup

Ok, I have my mspnp in and my ve-tables fairly nicely set. Next I want to start in on the spark tables and see what I can do there. I really have no idea what I can do and I'm looking for advice or resources to get this table in order.

can anyone help me out?
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Old 06-23-2007, 11:50 PM   #2
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Some more info on your setup is needed, size of the turbo and WI or IC are needed before we can steer you towards timming maps FWIW the PNP has some rather robust maps in it anyway.
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Old 06-23-2007, 11:58 PM   #3
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Dyno time on a load bearing dyno. That is what you need to tune the spark table safely.
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Old 06-24-2007, 01:29 AM   #4
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I am not turbo. I can post my map if you'd like. I guess this isn't the best forum for my questions but I have nowhere else to go really...
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Old 06-24-2007, 01:31 AM   #5
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i bought a wideband o2 and a slave to drive my car so that I could minimize my dyno time. I'm sure you can tune safely without a dyno... and that is the help I'm looking for.
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Old 06-24-2007, 04:02 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spooln View Post
i bought a wideband o2 and a slave to drive my car so that I could minimize my dyno time. I'm sure you can tune safely without a dyno... and that is the help I'm looking for.
If you don't want to tune the car on a dyno then you will need to do a lot of work with a stopwatch. There is no way that you will be able to feel the difference of 1 or 2 degrees of ignition advance so your only option would be to do a timed full throttle run, make an ignition advance change (and that would have to be for one rpm/map value at a time) then re-do the full throttle run and see if the time improves. Then re-do the full throttle run for all of the other cells in the spark table and you should be able to get there in the end.

Although in terms of the fuel wastage and time wastage a few hours on a dyno would be far more effective and cheaper, not to mention safer....
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Old 06-24-2007, 05:00 AM   #7
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The timing map provided by DIY with the MSPNP should be pretty optimal for you already, i wouldn't mess with the timing map much unless you of course were going to get on a dyno. The best way to tune timing is increasing timing cell by cell for the most power at that cell, not the most timing till you hear knock(knock sensor). So unless your butt dyno is as perfectly calibrated as a steady state dyno there is no way to tune timing without time spent on one.
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Old 06-24-2007, 12:44 PM   #8
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I can feel it why cant he. dude you just gotta dirve and tune it is easy. have some one drive and you tune. or you drive not eht feelings and rpms then tune ad abit of timming no knock keeps on pulling good maybe try some more uh ohh knock better back off a hair,
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Old 06-24-2007, 05:48 PM   #9
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thanks for the replies guys... I guess I was thinking that tuning spark would(might) provide a more noticeable difference. I've been playing around with a couple spark tables and you're right... it's very hard to notice any difference. My main issue is 1st gear... I really feel that I should be getting more pull from it and no matter what I do... it just doesn't happen. I'm going to go drive like a mad man right now and log in hopes that someone can provide some insight into what I need to do to extract maximum power.

I will go to the dyno at some point but I would a. like to know what to do after each pull and b. get the car dialed in pretty damn good and use the dyno for polish.
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Old 06-24-2007, 06:12 PM   #10
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Old 06-25-2007, 12:43 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spooln View Post
thanks for the replies guys... I guess I was thinking that tuning spark would(might) provide a more noticeable difference. I've been playing around with a couple spark tables and you're right... it's very hard to notice any difference. My main issue is 1st gear... I really feel that I should be getting more pull from it and no matter what I do... it just doesn't happen. I'm going to go drive like a mad man right now and log in hopes that someone can provide some insight into what I need to do to extract maximum power.

I will go to the dyno at some point but I would a. like to know what to do after each pull and b. get the car dialed in pretty damn good and use the dyno for polish.
Tuning spark is where you can actually get alot of power. I can definately notice a diffrence between the stock ecu timing and the spark table I am usisng from DIY. The thing is that the only way to know a diffrence is on a dyno. The highest timing advance dosent always produce the most power so you need time to figure out what produces the best power without causing knock. The only way to correctly and efectively do that is with a load bearing dyno. You should actually do the timing first before fuel to get the best results but that takes lots of dyno time. So most people street tune fuel then do spark on a dyno and fine tune fuel after that.
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Old 06-25-2007, 09:59 AM   #12
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The spark map we include with the MSPNP is a bit conservative, but unfortunately there's no spark equivalent of a wideband sensor short of some rather complicated cylinder pressure logging equipment. I'd recommend dyno tuning to get the spark table optimized. That's how we developed our map - then made a few adjustments to make it less likely to blow an engine that doesn't quite match the one in our test car.
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Old 06-25-2007, 12:19 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shuiend View Post
The thing is that the only way to know a diffrence is on a dyno. The highest timing advance dosent always produce the most power so you need time to figure out what produces the best power without causing knock.
lpp ftw!
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Old 06-25-2007, 12:20 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shuiend View Post
You should actually do the timing first before fuel to get the best results but that takes lots of dyno time. So most people street tune fuel then do spark on a dyno and fine tune fuel after that.
I suppose you just crank up pulse width super fat, run the car at 10:1afr while tuning spark or something?
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Old 06-25-2007, 12:26 PM   #15
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nah use your fuel map as is then tune the timming, and retune the fuel. you should'nt need to modify it a whole bunch maybe lean it out abit here and there for more power. realy if you just tweak the AF's in autotune after the spark is somewhat dialed in and run it the map will change itself rather quickly. autotune is awsome it can totally rework a map in about 5 minutes
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Old 06-25-2007, 12:32 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magnamx-5 View Post
nah use your fuel map as is then tune the timming, and retune the fuel. you should'nt need to modify it a whole bunch maybe lean it out abit here and there for more power. realy if you just tweak the AF's in autotune after the spark is somewhat dialed in and run it the map will change itself rather quickly. autotune is awsome it can totally rework a map in about 5 minutes
OK, but I'm not doing a handful of dyno pulls in a turbo car on a naturally aspirated fuel map.
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Old 06-26-2007, 02:41 AM   #17
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That's why there are numerous turbo ignition maps available for you to use safely allowing you do advance at free will to peak power output.
Al Hounos's ignition map is very conservative (should be the FM map) and as long as you have fuel tuned decent or a little on the righ side you can go ahead and tune ignition then finetune fuel back to where you want it.
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