My MS Install - 90 Miata
 

I learn from pictures and so I have assembled the following pics incase someone thinks and learns like i do....

First of all I ordered my MS from Protocar for $265 assembled...
I specified Hall Sensor and MSNS firmware when I ordered it....

I will hack these pics up a little and add narrative.... if it works....


On the top side of the board the following mods need to be done for Spark and Fuel... V.3 Printed Circuit Board

Q6 and Q8 need to be removed
C12 and C30 need to be removed
D1 needs to be removed and replaced with a jumper


http://www.automotiveexpression.com/ms1.jpg


The D1 Diode is removed and replaced with a jumper..

http://www.automotiveexpression.com/ms2.jpg

Remove Q6

http://www.automotiveexpression.com/ms3.jpg

Remove Q8

http://www.automotiveexpression.com/ms4.jpg

Remove Caps C12 & C30

http://www.automotiveexpression.com/ms5.jpg

The Back has a little going on...

http://www.automotiveexpression.com/ms6.jpg


http://www.automotiveexpression.com/ms7.jpg

This is the mod to get the cas to work....


http://www.automotiveexpression.com/miatacasmod.jpg

This is needed to get COIL signal to DB37 Connector....

http://www.automotiveexpression.com/miatacoilmod.jpg

Ok Guys what am I missing, so far?

Chris

Just the idle control.

Do this (lifted straight from the Mega Manual),

For PWM Idle Valve Users Only

Note - if you are using a PWM idle valve (Ford or Bosch 2 wire valve - see this link for more information), these valves can not be operated with a relay. As a result, they need a higher capacity transistor installed.

DO NOT install Q4 for use with PWM idle valves - it cannot handle the current directly for PWM idle valves. ('On/Off' type idle valves used with a relay are fine with the default Q4.)

Instead, for a PWM idle valve, use a TIP120/121/122 transistor (such as Digi-Key 497-2539-5-ND, 74¢ ea.) mounted on either the heat sink (if you have a spare spot) or the case. You should use a mica insulator (4724K-ND, 93¢) with heat sink grease as well. Run wires to the Q4 connections as shown below:

Do not install Q20 or D8, and jumper R39 as well. You will also have to put a 1N4001 diode across the PWM Idle valve itself - the banded end goes to the 12 Volt supply, the non-banded end goes to the lead that goes to MegaSquirt (this diode is for flyback purposes on the idle valve).

As an alternative to the TIP120 mod you can do this per Jerry at DIYAutotune

This is an EXCELLENT thread! I missed the second mod that kags posted! What does it do?

Another question:

What about D2, I currently have it jumpered, is that right?

I have more, but I need to look at my board when I get home. I dont remember if I installed those transistors and resistors referenced.

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

D2 is jumpered. My board came built with d2 jumpered.

Kags is a frustrated "Hand Model".:gay:

Glad he took up Miata's and electronics:bigtu:

I'm not into Megasquirt, but I can see your contributions and postings are superior. Thanks:bowdown:

"This is a simple two-part kit with a 1/4w 620ohm resistor to replace R19 and a ZTX688b to replace Q4. This will allow for control of the Ford two wire IAC valve found in Mustangs/Probes and surely other Fords (and maybe some Mazdas like the MX6) as well. "



This mod looks to be a little cleaner. So you just replace the two components in the kit on the board at the Q4 and R19 ? Are any of the other TIP120 mods needed to make this work?

Chris

Yes, we hand models are a different breed.....hehehe.

Aussie Driver, how did you mount the TIP120 ? The thread mentions mounting it on the case or heat sink... ? ? ?

Yup, thats it. It does seem WAYY cleaner to do it this way. I have purchased the "kit" from DIYAutotune and will report back when I get it up and running.

The location on the heat sink nearest the DB37 is empty on my board, that may or may not be right :confused:

beautiful job.

I had no room on the heatsink on my board so I just fitted my TIP122 onto the proto area of the V3.0 board. If you look at the photo I attached to my earlier post, it's the bottom source of the colored lines.

I am planning on getting a small strip of copper and attaching that to the back of the TIP122 and letting the other end of it touch the top of the MS case to help dissapate the heat. At the moment I'm running the MS without the top of the case on it so the copper is on my to-do-list.

Steve

Ok, now I am home and have my MS infront of me.

I dont know why in the hell I didnt install Q16? I will.

Why do we leave Q6 and Q8 out?

Why not just _glue_ the tip like this:

http://img479.imageshack.us/img479/9...odscopy7te.jpg

You can attach it here it seems by using the heat sink goop+epoxy or that thermal tape (I have bought it at fry's before for like a dollar.) they sell at electronics stores. I have used both to attach heatsinks to memory on video cards or chipsets that overheat without a heat sink. Using the tape would be easy to remove and will proabably do a decent job at disspating the heat to the metal. heatsink goop+ epoxy would proabably work better but be a bitch to remove.... just throwing out ideas becuase it sitting in the proto area seems kinda ghetto.

..

Start of the wiring harness....


The narrow side

http://www.automotiveexpression.com/ms8.jpg

The Wide side "Grounds"

http://www.automotiveexpression.com/ms9.jpg

Thanks dude!

This is from the V3 assembly guide... I dont think they mind us using the image...


http://www.automotiveexpression.com/v3ext_wiring.gif

The Grounds are on the long(wide) side of the plug.

Most of the sensors and controls are on the narrow side of the plug...

So using this diagram and numbering, starting at the top left.

1-19 row : 8/9/10/11 & 19 are grounds for the MS

20-37 row: In the Miata setup, we dont use the stepper IAC, but we steal those plugs holes for other funtions.. (cas, coil)...


20 - Air Intake Temp
21 - Coolant Temp
22 - Throttle Position sensor
23 - 02 Sensor
24 - RPM Signal (CAS Signal?)
25 - 1A RPM Signal (CAS Signal?)
26 - TPS signal 5vref
27 - 1B Coil
28 - Power 12V
29 - 2A Coil
30 - Idle Air Control (this requires using the DIYautotune Idle Air Mod Kit)
31 - Not used
32 - 33 - Tied together Injectors
34 - 35 - Tied together Injectors
36 - Not Used - This ignition is not used in my setup (see 27 / 29)
37 - Not Used - I am wiring the FP to come on when the ignition is on at Diag port.

Any Input, am I missing anything ?

The only thing that could be worthwhile adding (specially for a NB engine in a NA like kags1969 and I are running) is to use pin 31 with the shift light control to activate the VICS on the NB engine.

This is the connector that I bought from boomslang for $20 and soldered it up to the MS DB37 connector... My plan is to make this plug and play...

I will add the ecu connector pinouts and ms pinouts when I have a little more mental energy...


http://www.automotiveexpression.com/ms10.jpg

http://www.automotiveexpression.com/ms11.jpg

Kags This is amazing, makes me upset i went with emanage instead of MS but in a few years im sure ill be using this tutorial too. Thank you!

kags, we love you.

I really apreciate the time you put into all these tutorials, always top shelf my man. I owe you a beer if you come through Denver.

Come through Jersey and I'll make it two.:beer:

Even if you're just passing through and making a connecting flight, it's only 40 miles out to DIA, I'll be there :cool:

Kags that PnP harness is a great idea!. (I bet you can make some money making them..) Only issue I see is the Fans and fuel pump (and whatever else the ecu turns on that I dont know about!), could you post in detail how you did this when you do it :gay:

Awww :ughug:

mmmmmmm....beer.....

Well i got the kit from diy

""This is a simple two-part kit with a 1/4w 620ohm resistor to replace R19 and a ZTX688b to replace Q4."


http://www.automotiveexpression.com/ms21.jpg


http://www.automotiveexpression.com/ms22.jpg


This means that theoretically I should be able to plug this bastard in tomorrow...

Anybody wanna share their msq file? Aussie? kags1969@yahoo.com if your feeling generous...

C'mon Kags did you get that thing running!? I am dying to know.

I am having usb/com issues, so i ordered a new usb/serial adapter....

Ah, I see. I have a old as balls p1 300mhz (yup its really 300mhz) w/32 mb of ram for MS. It only has 32mb of ram so I hope it will be ok, but it has serial ports so that will make life easyer.

KAGS dont they have fry's electronics out there? I bet they have what you need, I shop at that hell hole all the time. Its shitty service but they have a good stock of things like that. I found a rareish ATI dvi--> component adapter there last week!

I/m using either 8 or 16 mb of RAM--Win 95...

awesome my computer is a powerhouse :gay: . Anyways the battery is dead using one of those inverters that plug into the cigarette lighter to power it will be ok right? (sorry about the derail.) the ac adapter still works! :)

any updates on this? I'm becomeing more and more interested in going to MS with my '93, as i'm going to boost and figure that if i MS first, i'll have better options for fuel once i start boosting and get the pwoer bug.

problem is that i'm nervous as hell about taking the plunge, so i've been following this thread.

looks like it's not too painful, though, overall.

Update?
 

Hi kegs...

any update on this? I have been leaning towards the e-manage till I saw your thread here... please please please do give us an update :)

thanks!!

Well, here is the update....

I melted a piston in my Emanage Ultimate 2000 Miata, and had to swap in another motor. Finished that a couple of weeks ago. I pulled the 1.6L out of the Blue Car (getting the MS) and have been prep-ing a 1.8L to go in. I have also been fabbing up intercooler pipping and such while the engine is out of the car, so I have a little room to work. I would like to stick the motor this weekend, then I will have to fab and exhaust etc. etc. after I have it running on the stock ecu, I will try the swap over. So you have a little bit of waiting to do before I add anything significant to the write up... sorry, I'd be running had I not melted that piston.. se la ve.

Chris

Getting Ready to stab that motor so I thought I better get back on this...

Here is an updated ECU Pinout -> MS Pinout and I have included the stock wire colors to help in identifying stuff. This is untested, but I think it is on the right track...

20 - Air Intake Temp (ECU 2P) (red-green)
21 - Coolant Temp (ECU 2Q ) (Blue-White)
22 - Throttle Position sensor (ECU 1N) (Red)
23 - 02 Sensor (ECU 2N) (Red-Blue)
24 - RPM Signal (ECU 2E) (white)
25 - 1A RPM Signal (ECU 2I) (Black-White)
26 - TPS signal 5vref (ECU 2L) (Lt Green – White)
27 - 1B Coil (ECU 1G) (Brown-yellow)
28 - Power 12V (ECU 1B) (White – Red)
29 - 2A Coil (ECU H) (Brown)
30 - Idle Air Control (ECU 2W)
31 - Not used
32 - 33 - Tied together Injectors (ECU 2U) (Yellow)
34 - 35 - Tied together Injectors (ECU 2V) (Yellow – Black)
36 - Not Used - This ignition is not used in my setup (see 27 / 29)
37 - Not Used - I am wiring the FP to come on when the ignition is on at Diag port

Here are the relevant Pinouts on the 90 ECU with wire colors... I pulled this stuff from schematics, and haven't tested it yet, but it should be close...

90 ECU Pin-out

1B = Power (White – Red)
1G = igniter 1-4 (Brown-yellow)
1H = igniter 2-3(Brown)
1M =
1N = Throttle Position Sensor (Red)

2A = Ground (Black)
2C = Ground (Black – Lt Green)
2E = Crank Angle Sensor (white)
2G = Cam Angle Sensor (Yellow-Blue)
2I = RPM Signal (Black-White)
2N = O2 Signal (Red-Blue)
2O = Airflow Sensor (red)
2P = Air Temp Sensor (red-green)
2Q = Water Temp (Blue-White)
2U = Injector 1/3 (Yellow)
2V = Injector 2/4 (Yellow – Black)
2W = Idle speed Control (Blue-Orange)

TPS shouldn't be used on the 90-93. Instead run a 470k resistor to ground.

Everything else looks right.

Is that due to the lack of analog measurement? just curious.

Yes the 90-93 is more of a switch.

You could wire up a Automatic TPS for a 1.6L Miata or Proto. But the
MS does Map accel and that works just as well. The only real need for a
TPS is for flooding problems which the Miata really doesn't have.

The 470K Resistor keeps the TPS from walking by itself.

Was this install done as a complete ecu replacement or does the MS function in parallel with the stock ecu?

I am asking because looking over the wiring diagrams, it seems like the ecu deals with quite a bit besides fuel/spark and a/c related idle control. I see a/c thermo switches and power steering pressure switches.

If you did do a complete ecu replacment, I would love to know how you delt with those stock ecu functions

It isnt running on MS yet, but it will be a replacement. My car is a barebones example. No AC, no PS, so the ecu will be relegated to handling just the Fuel, Spark and IAC functions.

Chris

Since the MS grounds 37 to turn the fuel pump on, couldn't you just connect 37 to the light green wire at the diagnostic connector?

Damn good question Private Pile!

I used a relay to jumper the two pins in the VAF together but I'm gonna try that.

If you look at the factory wiring diagram, all the switch in the AFM does is ground the light green wire from the ECU. Also, to test the fuel pump, you jumper the same green wire to ground at the diagnostic port. Once the green wire is grounded, it trips the circuit opening relay which supplies power to the pump. I haven't tried it yet, but it should go.

Edit to answer my own question:
Easier than the diagnostic port. Remove the kickpanel under the steering column and find the circuit opening relay. It has 5 wires coming out of it; blue/black, white/red, violet, black, and light green. Connect MS pin 37 to the light green wire and you're done. This is the same wire as the lt green wire at the MAF and diagnostic port, check for continuity if you're unsure.

In your last picture showing the board mods, your two red wires are parallel, not crossed. In this drawing, the yellow lines do cross, which results in coil A going to IAC1B and coil B to IAC2A, which is backwards. Just wanted to point this out for other folks. I just got things running yesterday thanks to this board and wanted to make things easier for others.:bigtu:

It doesn't really matter which way around they go as long as MSnSE/the loom connections are configured to match.

Yes, but if you were to cross the wires and follow the wiring guide in post #39, the coils will be switched. I know because that's what I did.:) When all I got was a backfire, I figured the coils were switched. Just hoping to smooth the road a bit more for others.

does this apply to 1.8 as well?? so you buy an assembled ms for 265 and what else do you need ? a list would help:bigtu:

Why exactly does D1 need to be removed?

Jim

It doesn't really.

D1 is on the board for a fuel only setup. For us to get spark we need to either solder a jumper across D1 or we can remove it all together. The advantage of removing D1 is that we can then re-use the diode to elimenate 'noise' for the PWM idle mod that some of us are running.

Here's what I found from DIYAutotune.com
MS130-C $325 (assembled MSV1 3.0 PCB)
MSStim21-C $75 (assembled megastim - optional)
MSHarness $68
IATwPiggy $21 IAT Sensor
38NPT-Bung_S $8 Bung for mounting IAT sensor (steel weld on, or JB-Weld on)
TuneCable $6.50
LC-1 without gauge $199 (Wideband 02 sensor plus wires - you can still view real-time AFR and datalog AFR through your laptop)
===================
$702.50

That's for the works, assembled but requries some wiring work, which I'm about to get.

or

MS130-C $325 (assembled MSV1 3.0 PCB)
MiataSquirt - $120.00
IATwPiggy $21 IAT Sensor
38NPT-Bung_S $8 Bung for mounting IAT sensor (steel weld on, or JB-Weld on)
TuneCable $6.50
LC-1 without gauge $199 (Wideband 02 sensor plus wires - you can still view real-time AFR and datalog AFR through your laptop)
===================
679.50

Plug in and turn the key!

http://www.automotiveexpression.com/.../emanage30.jpg

Refer. pic of a 90 ecu for pin out lettering.

I'm starting back on the MS.

Chris

do i have to use ignitors if i use vb921 circut?

VB921's *are* the ignitors iirc

so if you're using 1.8 coils you don't need em

so my only other question is does n e one have a distributor wiring diagram.. i think it can trigger ms and run in wasted spark mode