Need help tuning MS1
 

Hey everyone,

I need some help/guidance while tuning my VE table. My set up is a 91 1.6 running on a gen 1 mspnp, rx7 460cc, innovate lc-1, 14b turbo, diy log manifold and intercooler set up, walbro 190 pump. No vtps and still batch fire for now. I can get it to idle good, but afr's everywhere else on my VE dont seem to be in line with my targets. In boost it seems they initially go richer then my targets but then back off to around 13 and then fluctuate between 11.5-13. I did have IAT heat soak issues, i played with the coolant related air density so gammae stays at 100, but in boost it still seems to remove around 3-4%. I also moved the IAT to intercooler end tank, reads alot closer to ambient now, but when i restart the car after it sits for a bit it still idles lean until i start moving. But IAT's are not higher.

I have been doing logs and autotuning, just confused with how it is changing my VE table. In some areas it adds fuel but then in cells beside it pulls fuel.

I know i need to keep tuning. Just want to see if someone who actually knows what they are doing can check my tune and a log and tell me what to do next. I have controller authority at 0 and overrun fuel cut off while logging and autotuning so they dont interfere.

Any help is appreciated, thanks in advance!

From my experience, don't use auto tune for boost. Auto tune up to 100 , the tune boost yourself using logs and or a friend driving while you tune.

Thanks for the reply ryan, i have been using mainly logs for my tuning. Looking at the log i posted it looks like when i am in boost my map signal goes a bit erratic. Line goes up and gown constantly, and the afr's do the same.

Anybody able to check the log and tell me what they think?

I will also add that i am running toyota cops with ngk bkr7e plugs gapped at 32.

Don't need to look. You need to tune more. Drive around, not in boost. Let auto tune do it thing. When it gets smooth, move to boost and do what I said. Sit passenger, find a hill, stay in a steady low boost. .with the fuel and afr windows open, adjust the fuel until it matches the afr-guage to target.

I always tune idle by hand and auto tune everything else, especially in boost.

Yes, I should have been more clear. Tune boost by hand, idle as well. Auto tune everything else.

I honestly just make sure I am overly rich in boost when I start then just let autotune do its thing there.

Mine went nuts when I did that. Started pulling and adding tons of fuel, on what seamed lIke randome cells. Made no sense. Maybe if I had been using AFR safety. ....

Best advice yet. Autotune on the MS1 is tragic Make sure your closed loop AFR correction is Off when making adjustments to VE, or it'll fight itself.

I have never seen that happen. I have been using the built in autotuning with TS since it came out with out any problems. Before then I would take logs and let MegaLog Viewer do the tuning on the logs.

Again, I've never had any problems autotuning in boost with a ms1. The ve curves made a nice gentle slope with the torque curve mimicking it later when it was on a dyno. Unless your targets are wildly varied from cell to cell the ve table should autotune into nice gradual slopes.

Yes i tune my idle cells manually, i don't let autotune do that. However autotune still changes my values in those cells when it is on, i have ego control set to above 1500 and idle around 900-1000, anything else i need to do?

I have controller authority at 0 anytime i am tuning so it does not affect the numbers. I am trying to get the fuel table dialed in then i will add authority later and it can make minor corrections.

I restarted with the basemap fuel map, made some adjustments so it wasn't pig rich up top. I disconnected the waste gate actuator so i could dial in up to 100kpa first. Went well with a combination of data logging, autotuning and just looking at my afr's as i drove. Above 100kpa is better, afr's do not bounce around as much.

After a bit more reading it seems to me that before my ve was too lean up top so it would want to be around 13 afr in boost, bu my accel enrichments were too high so they would try and put the afr in the 11's and then it would just go between 11-13. Does that make sense?

I can see now in my logs that afr's come down to around 11.8-12 in boost but accel enrichment kicks in and they go down to low 11. This is after reducing my accel enrich values.

Another issue i am seeing is my accel enrichment seems to get activated by my tps but i have it set to mapdot. I am running the stock 90-93 tps, in my logs the TP value is almost always at 49 but it does go to 48 and when that change happens TP AE turns on. But i never see the MP AE on. Should i disconnect the tps?

Also i still get lean restarts. I moved my IAT to IC endtank so its not IAT heatsoak, IAT's dont change and stay close to ambient. Ive read about fuel heat soak but i have a return fuel system. Any suggestions?

Sorry for the long response, thanks for all the reply's so far!

In autotune, select advanced settings, then set parameters for the auto tune; above 1500 rpm, above 45 kpa. Etc.

If you boost in 13 afr, your car will die a quick death. Shoot for 11.5

Or you can highlight the cells and block them. Autotuning in boost simply requires time in each cell. Best done on hills, if available.

Makes sense about the autotune settings, not sure why i thought it was ego control lol. Thanks for that.

Anybody have any input about my accel enrichment or the lean restart?

I have mapdot selected, but i only see TP AE and TP DE go active in my logs, also MAP DE does go active sometimes, not sure why.

https://www.miataturbo.net/megasquir...eae-ms3-83753/

Not sure how different MS1 is from MS3

MS1 does not have EAE.

Is it ok to turn off accel enrichment while tuning? Just set the values to zero?
Thats what seems to be giving me problems right now.

What else do you have off during tuning? I have controller authority off, overrun cut off, coolant related air density set to normal correction(not sure if it matters).

It doesn't adjust the tune while AE is active.

So AE on or off while tuning?

How does AE work on MS1 with mapdot selected, i dont see MP AE or MP DE active in my logs. MP DE is sometimes on. TP AE and DE is what i see active during accel and decel.

You can leave it on because it does not change the cells in a bad way when it is active. Block out the idle cells so they are not changed and drive the car normally in varying conditions and varying gears and varying speeds for a couple of hours and the tune will be pretty darn close. Set it to "very easy."

Thanks sixshooter, what you suggested worked well.

If i rev the car up a bit (3-4k rpm) at idle and i get a bit of a backfire after i let off throttle, is that too much accel enrich? Afr's first go really rich to 10ish then swing lean.

What are common things that cause lean restart, i know about iat heat soak but mine is now in the IC end tank. Stays very cool there. Even having played with the coolant related air density so correction stays at 100%. I still lean out after car sits for 5-10 mins. Drive it a bit and it returns to normal.

What can i do about my map signal being very wavy at times in higher rpm and map, goes up and down by 10 kpa at times. I tee'd off at FPR, and i also tee'd into the map line going to ecu so it can give my boost gauge its signal as well.

I think most of my other issues are fixed with tune, car is running pretty good.

A few things can cause that. An obstruction in the map sensor tube, maybe it getting kinked? But 10 kpa isn't much. Are you absolutely not moving your foot on the throttle?
Are you even talking about map, or ergo control? Map will show on your fuel map, ergo will be found in the enrichment tab.

Not kinked, i thought it could be related to throttle movement. It is map, when map goes wavy so does the afr. As i accelerate map line in log is pretty straight, little bumps from 1-2kpa swings, under higher rpm and map sometimes its like that or 5-10 kpa swings.

Screen shot of your vehicle table.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1465655106

Screenshot from a log, that is my current fuel table.

Your resolution is terrible, IMO. You have monster jumps in your kpa axis. Get rid of the 18 and 29 kpa. Use those extra rows for boost, or areas you drive most.

Never seen an ms1 VE table. Ew.

See anything related to the wavy map signal? You can see afr, pw and dc go wavy as well.

Since i am only running 8 psi, how about i just make my max kpa say 185 which is good for 12psi? That table is what comes w/ basemap.

Yeah, the massive gaps between reference points. 100 to 125 then 159. Poopoo resolution where you need it.

What is TP (throttle position? ) and why is it swinging like that?

Ya TP is throttle position. I just have the stock tps, so that number only changes from 49 to 48. 49 when throttle is not moving then 48 when it does. You can see though when TP line is flat map line is still wavy.

Ill see what i do about resolution, i did read about it before and ppl said it was fine like that. Goes up by 28 until 184 then by 18 until 230.

Hey, got a few more questions.

1) I have been working on tuning heat soak, from what i read you want to have gammae 100% across all temps. But i need it to be higher in high temps in order to negate heat soak. Today it was around 30 celsius and each time i turned car off for a bit and restarted my iats were on average 38 celsius, so heat soaked. I had to get gammae up to around 108-110% so afr's stayed normal. Is this ok or is something wrong with my tune?

2) I have my over run cut set up so it is active above 2000rpm and kpa below 15, my kpa when i am off throttle is always 12. Also set it for after 2 seconds. Issue i am having is that when rpm gets below 2000 it stays in over run cut and if i let rpm go much lower car starts to shake and jerk. Should it not go back to normal afr below 2000?

3) When looking at a data log and i see red lines in the progress bar at bottom is that misfires? Got a log with 4 of them, all happen while car is idling. couple of them i can see afr go full lean or close to it the others it doe not change. Also noticed at around the same time during a couple of these misfires my coolant temp reading goes wacko. First time coolant went from 101 celsius back down to 70 and my ASE and WarmY went active, second time coolant went from 101 to 90.

Sorry for the essay, any help is appreciated.

Sounds like you have sensor signal issues.

Do yourself a huge favor. Sell the ms 1 and buy an ms3.

Can you elaborate more on the sensor signal issue?

Just want get the car running as best as i can with what i have. Maybe upgrade ecu later.

Any idea for the over run cut not going off below 2000rpm? Does the delay time only affect how long it takes to start or does it also effect how long it would take it to stop?

Also what effect does the target table have on the fuel map, if for example i want to have an 11.8 afr at 150kpa and 5000rpm but in my fuel table its calculated to supply a 12.2 worth of fuel will the target table somehow make it add more fuel. Or is this only while in closed loop. This is just for normal driving, not during tuning.

I have uploaded my current tune file and a data log, can someone check them and tell me what you think about my AFR's to what they are during driving to my targets.

Also i am still having issues with my fueling staying full lean below my min rpm for over run cut, you can see in the log PW increases but AFR's dont change.Even with over run cut off it does the same thing.

How does my coolant related air density look? I have had to jack up the corrections quite a bit to maintain my AFR's on hot restarts. Im also having trouble maintaining a smooth idle often no matter how i play with the corrections. Also today i at one point started the car at 24 celsius iat and it was leaning out a bit, but that was right around what the ambient temp was. Drove a little and stop and AFR's went back to normal but IAT was still 24. I also made correction in my coolant related air density up to 30 celsius but it still leaned out.

Thanks in advance!

I'm using MS1 on a 96, so a few things are different. You might try a few of these settings to see if they are more compatible than what you are using.

My idle control is ok, 1.6 has different min dc and other settings.

No matter what i set the over run cut values to it still stays full lean under the rpm limit. Even with over run off, it still goes full lean when off throttle or sometimes i have had it where it fluctuates between what the afr should be in the ve table and full lean. My idle PW is 1.7-1.8, in my logs i can see when i get below 2000 rpm for over run the PW increases from 0 to 1.4 so injectors open but not enough?

For coolant related air density table, my values were similar to yours with base map. But i set all correction numbers to 100% and tuned VE and now i am just adding correction during different temps to maintain my afr's and battle heat soak. Is that ok?

Been playing with some settings and it seems that my and TPS lower then value is what is affecting my over run cut. With the base map it came set at 150, with this number it goes into over run as it should and stays there until idle. I had it set to 100 and it would not over run cut, just went by the afr in ve table. At 125 it goes into over run cut but it goes back and forth between full lean and afr in ve table for bottom row.

Can i even tune this value, since i am still running the stock 90-93 tps(not variable). Also tried disconnecting the tps which did not help.

Sixshooter i noticed you have 40 for your and tps lower than, are you running a vtps?

For my over run fuel cut i have it set to rpm above 2000rpm and kpa below 20, issue i am having is my afr stays full lean below 2000rpm. In my logs my PW activates, goes from 0-1.4 but my afr wont come back off full lean. What is causing this?

Also when i autotuned i had accel enrich values to 0, ve table seemed to get set up well. I also made some adjustments after with logs etc. Issue i have is my accel enrich pw adder values need to be very low other wise my afrs go too rich when ae activates. When driving car feels ok and i dont see it lean spike much at all, but coming off me bottom ve table row from over run cut and when downshifting engine gets very shakey. I had over run off so it just went by the afr down at 12 kpa and when i get back on throttle i can see afr go from 14.5ish to 18, so lean spike. Is this related to AE? What did i do wrong?

Autotune does not manipulate cells when AE is actively adding fuel. But if you are trying to autotune with AE off then you will end up with funky values because you will go lean whenever you push the throttle more. IOW, leave AE active while autotuning. It knows what it's doing.

Yeah every time it lean spikes it will want to add fuel to the table. I noticed in many spots where i had random higher numbers so i smoothed it out by hand then used logs to clean things up. Issue is i need higher pw adder in AE right now to prevent lean spikes but if i go any higher AFR's go super rich when it activates. Without AE up top in boost ill hit 11.8-12, and even with my small AE numbers right now ill go richer then that when it activates. Can go as rich as low 11 with what i have set up now and with higher pw adder values AFR goes to 10.

Another thing thats weird is when i sit at idle and i blip the throttle, i need a good throttle input to activate AE. But when i am coming off the bottom row of my VE and i get on the throttle the slightest input will activate AE and i get big lean spikes from 14.5 afr to 18. Up top it spikes lean by maybe 1 afr.

Also for over run it only returns the afr below my rpm limit in some gears, mostly in 4th. In second and third the PW increases but afr stays full lean and if it gets low enough engine bucks and shakes. Not sure whats up there.