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Old 10-09-2014, 08:49 AM   #1
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Default Need More Analog Inputs - MS3PRO

I have a MS3 PRO I'm going to install and I need more 0-5V analog inputs. The board has 8 total - 5 for sensors (AIT/CLT/MAP/CRANK/CAM I believe) and then 3 spares. I would like to be able to add several temperature sensors and a few pressure transducers but I'm quickly running out of analog inputs. I need about 12 Total, only have 3.

What are my options? I emailed DIY autotune but haven't heard back yet. I know MS3 PRO has CAN bus so I figured adding channels should't be impossible.

I would prefer to buy something that I just plug in, setup, and it works. Not a solder it together, flash firmware myself, use sketch firmware that's still being developed/tested type of solution if at all possible.
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Old 10-09-2014, 10:21 AM   #2
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CAN would be good - the CAN-EGT is a purpose built thermocouple interface for 8 thermocouples, or there is a way to use a MicroSquirt for extra I/O as well.
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Old 10-09-2014, 11:17 AM   #3
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Another option would be an additional datalogger, like a DL1, to connect to the ECU via can and you send the rest of your sensors there and use the DL1 for all your logging.
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Old 10-09-2014, 01:13 PM   #4
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I've talked to Matt, I'm going to use the CAN EGT and use thermocouples for the temp measurements, and that leaves me 3 spare analog inputs, and I THINK if I buy a new wideband and chain it to the CAN-EGT, that frees up White connector pin 25 as a 4th analog input. If so this will work great.
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Old 10-09-2014, 01:47 PM   #5
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Honestly I would do what Leafy said. While I am not a huge fan of the race technology stuff, it's software is still better than megalogviewer for analysis. Also if you get a DL1, make sure it's a MK3 because the previous ones do not support CAN. Furthermore their CAN support is still a bit rudimentary, but works.

That way you would have the race technology box log everything and you can use their better software. I did this exact thing on a FSAE car with a DL1 MK3 logging and data from a performance electronics ECU streaming to it. Well, until we got the money to go all MoTeC electronics which was roughly 1000x better haha.
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Old 10-09-2014, 02:02 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cardriverx View Post
Honestly I would do what Leafy said. While I am not a huge fan of the race technology stuff, it's software is still better than megalogviewer for analysis. Also if you get a DL1, make sure it's a MK3 because the previous ones do not support CAN. Furthermore their CAN support is still a bit rudimentary, but works.

That way you would have the race technology box log everything and you can use their better software. I did this exact thing on a FSAE car with a DL1 MK3 logging and data from a performance electronics ECU streaming to it. Well, until we got the money to go all MoTeC electronics which was roughly 1000x better haha.
I've used aftermarket dataloggers on FSAE cars as well actually. PE ecu's are TERRIBLE... Fun times...

I checked and that box is 1000 bucks, plus 250 to upgrade it from 8 to 12 analog inputs. I think the 300 CAN EGT box will do what I need for less $$$, but yes the DL1 looks badass though.

Another reason is I want to be able to set outputs based on the data, which MS3 PRO can do, and a datalogger can not.
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Old 10-09-2014, 03:36 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SleeperMX-5 View Post
I've used aftermarket dataloggers on FSAE cars as well actually. PE ecu's are TERRIBLE... Fun times...

I checked and that box is 1000 bucks, plus 250 to upgrade it from 8 to 12 analog inputs. I think the 300 CAN EGT box will do what I need for less $$$, but yes the DL1 looks badass though.

Another reason is I want to be able to set outputs based on the data, which MS3 PRO can do, and a datalogger can not.
Ah I see, yeah it's probably best to do that then. If I remember right I think the DL1 can transmit over CAN, it was all very "beta" when I used it tho, and you would have to set up the MS3 from a blank slate.

We were doing testing for Performance Electronics new (as of then) ECU3, so it was not too bad (yes the ECU1 sucks huge dick haha). But even then the ECU3 was barely on Megasquirt level so still was a pain.
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Old 10-09-2014, 03:47 PM   #8
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How does 24 analog channels for $399 shipped sound to you?
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Old 10-09-2014, 04:04 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Reverant View Post
How does 24 analog channels for $399 shipped sound to you?
Analog to CAN unit? What's the resolution and voltage range on the inputs?

Also OP, there is this: http://www.texense.com/en/produits/w...rface_109.html

Used it before, worked well.
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Old 10-09-2014, 04:06 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cardriverx View Post
Ah I see, yeah it's probably best to do that then. If I remember right I think the DL1 can transmit over CAN, it was all very "beta" when I used it tho, and you would have to set up the MS3 from a blank slate.

We were doing testing for Performance Electronics new (as of then) ECU3, so it was not too bad (yes the ECU1 sucks huge dick haha). But even then the ECU3 was barely on Megasquirt level so still was a pain.
It was 2009/2010 when I had to mess with a PE, dunno which one but it was garbage! We switched to MS3X, the next year, they now run MS3 PRO


Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverant View Post
How does 24 analog channels for $399 shipped sound to you?
Sounds interesting, tell me more? I kinda already ordered the parts from DIY though, but still interested to see what you offer anyways. Maybe I need to datalog another 24 things?
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Old 10-09-2014, 04:07 PM   #11
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Analog to CAN, correct.

The unit is capable of 12bits, however the MS3 only uses 10bits, so that's what you get.

0-5V as you would expect with any analog logging device.
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Old 10-09-2014, 04:13 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverant View Post
Analog to CAN, correct.

The unit is capable of 12bits, however the MS3 only uses 10bits, so that's what you get.

0-5V as you would expect with any analog logging device.
So that gets you around ~0.5F of resolution for normal engine temp ranges at the MS? That means that the EGT to CAN interface has around 2 of resolution? Oil and fuel pressure around 0.2psi, etc. I'm kind of thinking out loud to try and find a sensor where that would be too low that you'd also want to connect to the ecu.
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Old 10-09-2014, 04:57 PM   #13
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That would depend on what sensors you connect, and what range you are interested in.

10bits = 1024 ADC steps = 4.88mV increments.
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Old 10-09-2014, 05:01 PM   #14
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Yes I know how an ADC works, thats were I got my numbers from sensor range/(2^#bits-1).
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Old 10-09-2014, 05:58 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
Yes I know how an ADC works, thats were I got my numbers from sensor range/(2^#bits-1).
Well, using my handy-dandy sensor spreadsheet, with a cheap GM water temp sensor and 1k pull-up with 100k pull-down, you will get -15C at 4.731V and 150C at 0.227V. That's 165C range over 4.504V. 5/4.504=0.90 or 90%. 1024 steps*.9 = 922 steps.

165C/922 = 0.179 degrees C per step or 0.3222 degrees F resolution. Of course these sensors are not very linear, but close enough.

I did this more for me to brush up on the calcs, but regardless less than 1 degree of resolution should be fine for almost anything.
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Old 10-12-2014, 04:29 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverant View Post
How does 24 analog channels for $399 shipped sound to you?
I bought this too. Going to datalog everything....
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