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The Newb Friendly Tuning Guide

 
Old 10-09-2018, 11:48 PM
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Default The Newb Friendly Tuning Guide

Hey all, I'm back again for another mt.net exclusive tuning video series. I did a few more videos in the same vein as my previous megasquirt build guide. I wanted to to put out some good info that can help people get into Tuner Studio and Megasquirt tuning for the first time with a decent foundation.

First part is an intro that covers some Tuner Studio basics, screens, etc and set the stage for Idle Tuning.


Next is a review of all the screens used for start up and closed loop idle control.


Then we go through how to set up custom tuning dashboards in Tuner Studio which puts everything you need to tune your idle in real time right at your fingertips.


We now get out to the car and go over my basic approach to tuning in real time with tips.


Now we get serious: Intro to PID tuning. These three little numbers are often considered black magic. Here's how they work and why PID is the most commonly used feedback control method out there.


Last edited by Pedxing; 01-15-2019 at 04:49 PM.
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Old 10-10-2018, 12:27 PM
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this is awesome! I'll definitely review as soon as I have a chance, maybe I can help/contribute
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Old 10-10-2018, 12:36 PM
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Ahh, perhaps that Custom Tuning why and how and what for I asked about earlier.
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Old 10-10-2018, 01:37 PM
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Looking forward to going through this!

Any chance you'll go through and do anything with engine states?
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Old 10-10-2018, 02:02 PM
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The problem with engine states is not setting them/tuning them.
It's how inconsistently they work at times. So if you're looking for a magic setting it doesn't exist, nor is it even close to similar on different cars.

IMO
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Old 10-10-2018, 02:02 PM
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Awesome! I was going to post a thread asking for something like this (been reading the MS guides on diyautotune and various threads i've found), but this is insanely helpful for a n00b like me.
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Old 10-10-2018, 03:41 PM
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Replying for the sub.
really wish this wouldve existed when I first started lol
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Old 10-10-2018, 03:58 PM
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Sub'd, interested to view this and keep up to date with.
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Old 10-10-2018, 07:24 PM
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Awesome, thanks guys. I'm not a pro tuner (or even close) but hopefully it hits the basics to an extent to get people working so they're not chasing their tail with changing setting after setting in a loop. Let me know if there are any glaring mistakes, I appreciate any feedback. I hope to continue the series with additional stuff.

For now I'm just on 1.4 firmware so I have zero experience with engine states. However I mean to try it -- I tend to research the crap out of things so hopefully I can distill what learn and bring it back in video form.

Also this car is not boosted however the boost is coming and when I do tuning for all that, I'll be putting out new episodes. The turbo and manifold is sitting on my desk right now.
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Old 10-13-2018, 06:10 PM
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nice work
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Old 10-15-2018, 12:56 PM
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Watched the first 2 so far. Nice simple explanations for things. Nice work. My car is running pretty good at the moment but I'll be going through everything again just to validate I am understanding things. I see a few things I can improve upon already.
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Old 10-15-2018, 05:30 PM
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Thanks for these videos!
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Old 10-18-2018, 05:31 PM
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Have a cat. You've more than earned it.
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Old 10-19-2018, 01:21 AM
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My new to me MS3 Basic is coming in tomorrow so this is perfect timing.
Thanks for taking the time to do this!
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Old 10-19-2018, 01:57 AM
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I can't say I learned anything I didn't already know, but I spent a few hundred hours researching the < 100 hours of work I've actually done.

If you had made this a year ago it likely would have saved me some hair on my temples.
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Old 01-10-2019, 08:33 AM
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Thank you so much for these, absolutely what I need as a beginner
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Old 01-15-2019, 04:56 PM
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Hey all, thanks for the feedback. New Part 5 is up at the end of Post 1. This is the intro to PID (proportional integral derivative) tuning, how it works in general (any control system), how you can tune it, and some specifics for how TunerStudio uses it. I see a lot of questions out there about this process and people are looking for the magic numbers to make their car perfect. Sort of "this worked for me" type of stuff. So I did this intro so people know where to start and how to adjust the numbers to get what they want and to remove what they don't want from the loop behavior. That way you can get your own perfect numbers as applies to your car.
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Old 03-08-2019, 11:33 PM
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Hey, just watched the whole series. There's lots of useful consolidation of info here that I feel like I had to cobble together in bits and pieces on my own so thank you for putting these together. A couple questions I have after watching part 5 on PID:
  1. are you recommending using EGO to correct AFR at idle? How does that mess with closed loop idle? I've read Brain and and other Miata gurus highly recommend closed loop idle, and I feel like I've also seen somewhere that folks tend to leave EGO disabled in the idle RPM range. It seems like EGO PID and closed loop idle PID might fight each other, or at least interfere with each other's operations since they're both feedback mechanisms feeding into two different control equations.
  2. do you have any suggestions for Intake Air Temperature (IAT) heatsoak? If I sit in my car with it idling for 60 min and mess with my idle settings trying to improve them, my IAT reading slowly creeps up and I believe there's some black magic going on in MS to try to compensate for hotter (read: thinner) air by pulling fuel, thus leaning out my readings until I move around again. This messes with any idle setting changes I make because it becomes difficult to replicate conditions. Maybe, hopefully, this is where EGO could kick in to compensate for false lean readings and closed loop idle could work to manage RPMs based on engine load?
I've spent so many hours messing with MS and trying to improve my idle, it's seriously frustrating to feel like I've got it right after tweaking it for an hour, only to have it idle like **** the next day when I pull up to a redlight. I suspect it's an IAT heatsoak issue, because that's the only thing I can tell is changing over the course of an hour of idling vs driving around with fresh air cooling off the sensor. I'm desperate for a fix, other than setting my idle RPM to 1000, which so far has been the only consistent solution.
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Old 03-09-2019, 12:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Dwalk51 View Post
Hey, just watched the whole series. There's lots of useful consolidation of info here that I feel like I had to cobble together in bits and pieces on my own so thank you for putting these together. A couple questions I have after watching part 5 on PID:
  1. are you recommending using EGO to correct AFR at idle? How does that mess with closed loop idle? I've read Brain and and other Miata gurus highly recommend closed loop idle, and I feel like I've also seen somewhere that folks tend to leave EGO disabled in the idle RPM range. It seems like EGO PID and closed loop idle PID might fight each other, or at least interfere with each other's operations since they're both feedback mechanisms feeding into two different control equations.
  2. do you have any suggestions for Intake Air Temperature (IAT) heatsoak? If I sit in my car with it idling for 60 min and mess with my idle settings trying to improve them, my IAT reading slowly creeps up and I believe there's some black magic going on in MS to try to compensate for hotter (read: thinner) air by pulling fuel, thus leaning out my readings until I move around again. This messes with any idle setting changes I make because it becomes difficult to replicate conditions. Maybe, hopefully, this is where EGO could kick in to compensate for false lean readings and closed loop idle could work to manage RPMs based on engine load?
I've spent so many hours messing with MS and trying to improve my idle, it's seriously frustrating to feel like I've got it right after tweaking it for an hour, only to have it idle like **** the next day when I pull up to a redlight. I suspect it's an IAT heatsoak issue, because that's the only thing I can tell is changing over the course of an hour of idling vs driving around with fresh air cooling off the sensor. I'm desperate for a fix, other than setting my idle RPM to 1000, which so far has been the only consistent solution.
It is possible for ego and closed loop idle PID to fight each other or for one to mask problems with the other, but really they should compliment each other because they handle two different things. The idle PID closed loop is for reaching target rpm quickly with no occilation. Ego is for reaching target afr quickly with no occilation. Idle closed loop has a couple of tools to get to the rpm, iac and timing control (if enabled). Both can hide a problem with fuel because fuel and air and timing are linked.

So sometimes it can be good to tackle one at a time. Leave ego off until your fuel table and idle settings are good. Then enabling and tuning EGO with PID will allow the car to deal with external factors like temp or loads. Keeping the afr in the right range that the engine likes at idle then improves the idle rpm control keeping it stable and making it easy to maintain the afr. It's a beautiful thing.

Fun fact, when closed loop is on, it's always using PID control. The "basic" mode is PID but with the p and I locked to a default value.

For the iat, the above can help a lot. However good placement and shielding is also very helpful. I have mine placed inside a heat shield and also on the opposite side of the intake tubing from the exhaust. For turbo the best place is tapped into the cold side pipe or end tank itself of the intercooler, in front of the radiator. Very little heat soak there.
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