Reverent MS3 basic, My tune, NB 05 VCT NA 149hp !
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FM's Randall intake
Magnaflow cat Racing beat header Squaretop from the factory (EUDM car) Basic MS3 from Rev 149 whp at 6850 rpm and 181 nm peak numbers. Lower graph is stock + intake only. Job done ! https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1436864898 |
Almost 200 views and no replay... Much haters...
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:likecat:
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Seems high
Happy now? |
Don't know why I come back here every time, I'm not even really gay.
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Denial is the 1st hurdle to overcome.
So you want us to believe you picked up 40hp from a header and ms3? |
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What do you suggest ? it is a fake ?
How can dynapack lie ? |
Originally Posted by elior77
(Post 1249526)
What do you suggest ? it is a fake ?
How can dynapack lie ? Stock exhaust? |
Racing beat
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They do that pull in 4th on your 6 sp? or its calculated flywheel power? Im with 18psi on this one. 40 hp with a header and tune.....
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4th.
Reverent, with similar setup, got similar results. |
Yeah you guys messed up....
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The car is mine. I followed Emilio's 150~ whp plan step by step. What's the problem?
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What's emilio's 150whp step by step again? Cause I actually went through several of his threads and they all involved a whole lot more than header + tune to gain 40hp or 150whp total.
At first I thought the dyno is high reading (most dynapacs are), but your baseline of 110 is about what would be expected. I'm not saying anything is fake, but I know for a fact a miata doesn't gain 40hp with a header and tune. If you counted the flattop, intake, etc. as mods that might make sense, but he said your baseline included all those, so again, this makes no sense. I'm not calling anything fake or anyone a liar.....But we all have enough brains to see things not adding up here. |
The pulls were done in the wrong gear. 4th on a 6 sp isn't 1:1
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European and US cars outputs the same horsepower stock, It's when you start tuning you see gains from a squaretop. Fuel is 98 ron which is equivalnet to your 93 so it also helped.
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A higher flowing manifold is going to flow more air regardless. Maybe it's the better fuel (we have 91 here). I don't know. IF it's actually putting down those numbers, congrats
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Stock airbox, MAF, mid pipe and muffler?
I'm not seeing 155whp. I'd guess more like 130-135whp. So it's clear his is not our "rental" formula. We always ditch the stock airbox, run a 2.5" intake pipe on the coldside, run speed-density calibration, high flow exhaust and mid pipe. Even with that, a bone stock NB2 long block will have a hard time seeing 150whp on pump gas. |
Originally Posted by elior77
(Post 1249526)
How can dynapack lie ? The only dyno that is accurate from unit to unit (within 2% or so) is the Dynojet. That is a direct power measurement, based on the rotational acceleration of a known mass. Torque is then calculated based on RPM. You can actually get accurate power readings from a Dynojet without any RPM signal.
Originally Posted by yossi126
(Post 1249770)
European and US cars outputs the same horsepower stock
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Euro cars had the same issues hitting the advertised numbers as the US cars did. Pretty much every large dyno comparison done on the continent showed that the VVT cars were about 5-10hp down compared to 98-2000s (large club of cars all being strapped to the same dyno).
I think he's pretty close to the rental formula if you read between the lines, only missing the intake... not sure how much that is worth. |
MAF delete, stock piping after cat. As for stock power, my car is 146 bhp at the crank. Only 155 cars are JDM/AUS.
As for the dyno, its reading compared to X dyno is irrelevant. There is a 40 hp gain as we used the same dyno. |
Intake is significant as is the stock exhaust. On a Dynojet, that car would make about 135whp.
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So you are saying a stock nb2 puts out 95 whp on a dynojet?
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Originally Posted by yossi126
(Post 1249988)
So you are saying a stock nb2 puts out 95 whp on a dynojet?
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I keep trying to tell them that, but they're too stubborn to listen. Looks like they won't listen to Emilio either.
You're not picking up 40whp from a header and tune on a BP. There are bad results, there are good results, and then there are results that are clearly unrealistic. But I guess ignorance is bliss. Enjoy |
Ok, so dyno is lying. I gave up.
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It is a 110 to 149hp gain as the dyno operator point out.
I can ask him about the gear pull but I think it was done on the same gear... |
And this is exactly why there were 200 views and no comments...
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Look guys, I'm no kid and I'm taking this tuning buisiness seriously.
If something here is not right I would like to know about it and not just wave numbers pointlessly. So please, I would like some valuable input, I can give any detail you can ask for. The base is we did the pulls on the same dyno with the same car. |
-Was the baseline done on the same day?
-Were the dyno settings the same? correction factors, etc. ( I don't know how a dynapack gets set up, I only have dynojet and mustang dyno exp). The bottom line is that the numbers just don't add up. 40whp is a lot of power, and an n/a miata isn't picking that up from just a header and tune. Modern OEM Turbo cars barely pick up that much power with a tune, let alone some dinky n/a bp. |
I talked to the dyno operator, as you know the power reading is not 100% wheel, and at the bottom line we are talking about 10hp difference from what you expect.
The tune is right, the dyno is right and this are the numbers. 149.5hp @ 6850rpm @ the hubs, 137lb/ft @ 3750rpm about 28lb/ft gain from stock. Dynapack. BTW http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=548760 |
Ok, Church dyno referenced...
Now I know we're being trolled. |
Instead of having a real discussion that all can benefit from we're having a shit fight like every time.
Maybe it is not the right place to post. I just don't get it - or these are all kids ... |
Originally Posted by elior77
(Post 1250485)
Instead of having a real discussion that all can benefit from we're having a shit fight like every time.
Maybe it is not the right place to post. I just don't get it - or these are all kids ... Likely culprit for the bad data is as Andrew inferred, dyno calibration. Before you get defensive, accept that the data you posted is corrupted by an error somewhere. Take your ego out of it and just look at the facts, like any good engineer will do. "Did I make a mistake?". Besides all this banter about the final values, in the end who cares? Car runs great, it's healthy, life is good. Does it make Dynojet equivalent SAE 155whp with a header and tune, of course not. So put and exhaust and CAI on it, double check dyno calibration and do it again :party: |
They post numbers that don't add up.
We call em like we see em, and take guesses as to why. They call us names, and keep trash talking this place, the whole time pretending to want to have a civil discussion. .....I mean |
Emilio, you said on that Ebruner thread on m.net that his setup is" 146whp corrected. Add rb header to 4-6whp."
That's exactly what I got. Did you ever had a randall intake on your dyno? How is it worse than the k&n typhoon you are selling? I am constantly seeing 20c degrees lower than a fellow friend with a k&n. I had a racing beat exhaust, didn't count for anything apart from obnoxious sound |
Originally Posted by yossi126
(Post 1250583)
Emilio, you said on that Ebruner thread on m.net that his setup is" 146whp corrected. Add rb header to 4-6whp."
That's exactly what I got. Did you ever had a randall intake on your dyno? How is it worse than the k&n typhoon you are selling? I am constantly seeing 20c degrees lower than a fellow friend with a k&n. I had a racing beat exhaust, didn't count for anything apart from obnoxious sound So it's clear, I don't intend to argue with you over the gains of each specific mod. You're missing the point entirely. Your data contains errors. So 10 more posts arguing that it's valid will fall on deaf ears, and on this forum, maybe get you penalized for being so hard headed. Data contains errors. Work on that assumption and you will find grace. |
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I know this thread is kinda dead but check out the following images. I'm not saying this is what's going on with you but maybe.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1438128323 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1438128323 https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1438128323 So the blue line dyno was done on a nice day no doubt. The red line dyno was your typical South Florida day. Either way one thing is for sure: the hygrometer is not reading correctly as there is no way in hell that we had 6% humidity or even 40% humidity on the hot day. Not gonna happen. Then the fact that SAE correction went less than 100%. How can an engine make less than what it made on an ideal day? So as much as I would love to use the STD correction factor I just can't see it being 4% more. Again, I'm in South Florida at sea level; look at the barometer readings which actually seem to be reliable. A 4% correction factor for 93* air temp and 40% humidity is not something I'm willing to believe in. So I go by uncorrected as much as a heartbreaker as it might be. This may not be your situation and you are forced to use correction factors to gauge your numbers to other people's. I know altitude plays a major factor with N/A engines. But for a true comparison try and use uncorrected and see if anything changes in your dyno plot. On my example it goes from a 7hp peak gain and basically a 5tq loss almost everywhere below 6k in uncorrected to a 15hp peak gain and no loss of torque anywhere with correction. |
All in all if both dyno run were done with the same setup the delta is what it is - right ?
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