Sequential COP questions & research - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


MEGAsquirt A place to collectively sort out this megasquirt gizmo

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 04-25-2008, 03:35 PM   #1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (5)
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Troy, MI
Posts: 860
Total Cats: 13
Default Sequential COP questions & research

Yes I did a search, and no, the answer is not clear.

I was wondering if you guys who are running COP with MS1 on an NA, run it in sequential mode, or in wasted-spark mode? I read this and its not clear whether this is possible with the CAS?

http://www.msextra.com/manuals/MS_Ex...l.htm#twotrigs

(scroll down to sequential COP).
The_Pipefather is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2008, 03:48 PM   #2
Elite Member
iTrader: (39)
 
Zabac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: High Point NC
Posts: 4,854
Total Cats: 8
Default

I think everyone here runs wasted spark with dreams and hopes to be able to figure out how to run sequential.
If you figure it out, make sure you share asap
Zabac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2008, 04:05 PM   #3
Supporting Vendor
 
Matt Cramer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,266
Total Cats: 51
Default

MS1/Extra can only run them in wasted spark mode with the stock CAS; you'd have to make some creative mods to the CAS to get them to fire sequentially. The MS2/Extra 2.0 beta code can fire them sequentially.
Matt Cramer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2008, 04:16 PM   #4
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (5)
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Troy, MI
Posts: 860
Total Cats: 13
Default

or, maybe using a crank wheel with the existing 2nd trigger input?
The_Pipefather is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2008, 05:33 PM   #5
y8s
2 Props,3 Dildos,& 1 Cat
iTrader: (8)
 
y8s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Fake Virginia
Posts: 19,038
Total Cats: 407
Default

on the 1.8 magnetic CAS the mods should be easy enough. there's two sets of sensors. And the plates are both independent so you can just goof around with them until the pulses are in the right place. Unless of course the pulses from the two signal out wires are phased properly already.

y8s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2008, 05:39 PM   #6
Supporting Vendor
 
Matt Cramer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,266
Total Cats: 51
Default

However you set it up, for COP with the MS1/Extra code you'd have to get 1 and only 1 pulse on the 2nd trigger for each cam revolution.
Matt Cramer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2008, 05:53 PM   #7
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (5)
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Troy, MI
Posts: 860
Total Cats: 13
Default

I havent seen the inside of a CAS but from the DIY website install article, the inner ring of holes has only one hole. So wouldnt that make it one CMP pulse per 720 deg. crank rotation?
The_Pipefather is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2008, 06:27 PM   #8
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Delicious and Moist.
Posts: 26,323
Total Cats: 1,920
Default

On both the magnetic and optical NA CAS, the CMP signal is one pulse per crank rev, two per cam rev. The two CMP pulses are not of equal duration however, one is high during both the leading and falling edges of the corresponding CKP pulse, the other goes low before the falling edge of the corresponding CKP pulse. (or maybe it was the leading edges of CKP... I've got the printout at home.)

Either way, what you'd need to do is to modify the CAS wheel to eliminate one of the two CMP pulses. I believe you'd want to end up with the one that occurs just before #1 TDC. On the magnetic version, you could simply cut off one of the two teeth. On the optical version, you'd need to fill in one of the slits.

Here's what the inside of the optical CAS looks like:
Joe Perez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2008, 06:42 PM   #9
y8s
2 Props,3 Dildos,& 1 Cat
iTrader: (8)
 
y8s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Fake Virginia
Posts: 19,038
Total Cats: 407
Default

you can either cut off the teeth or build a circuit to "ignore" the second pulse. say with a T flip-flop.
y8s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2008, 07:17 PM   #10
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (5)
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Troy, MI
Posts: 860
Total Cats: 13
Default

Since its an optical sensor on the 90-93 and it doesnt care about proximity, maybe there is enough space to solder or maybe glue a tiny piece of aluminum sheet on the backside of the existing plate?

I need to get a spare CAS and try this myself.

On the MS two additional outputs need to be brought out to the harness.
The_Pipefather is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2008, 08:47 PM   #11
y8s
2 Props,3 Dildos,& 1 Cat
iTrader: (8)
 
y8s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Fake Virginia
Posts: 19,038
Total Cats: 407
Default

you can get thin aluminum tape. home depot.
y8s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2008, 10:07 AM   #12
Supporting Vendor
 
Matt Cramer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,266
Total Cats: 51
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by y8s View Post
you can either cut off the teeth or build a circuit to "ignore" the second pulse. say with a T flip-flop.
But the flip-flop had better know which pulse to ignore, or your coils will only fire correctly half the time you crank up the car.
Matt Cramer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2008, 10:32 AM   #13
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (10)
 
Reverant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 5,440
Total Cats: 198
Default

My only concern with these mods is losing the balancing of the wheel. Either via adding weight (tape on the opto CAS) or losing weight (sawing off a flux shield on the magnetic CAS).

Jim
Reverant is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2008, 11:20 AM   #14
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (5)
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Troy, MI
Posts: 860
Total Cats: 13
Default

I posted this on the Extra forum today:

http://www.msextra.com/viewtopic.php?t=28252

Maybe I should've asked here first.

I think sawing off the magnetic CAS seems like a more reliable option, PROVIDED 4 pulses are enough on the CKP signal.

If an escort GT distributor is similar to a 94-97 CAS I'm gonna find me one in the yard today.
The_Pipefather is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2008, 06:04 PM   #15
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (5)
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Troy, MI
Posts: 860
Total Cats: 13
Default

Ok I went to the yard and picked up a CAS. I have some interesting findings for you guys:

1) A Ford Festiva has the exact same optical CAS as the 90-93 miata, except that there is only one inner slot. It looks the same as the pic Joe posted, except that the inner lower slot isn't there. This would give the required 4 + 1 pulse.

2) I picked up a Ford GT distributor which is the exact same magnetic CAS as the 94-97 miata, except that there is only one inner "ear". This would give a 4 + 1 pulse as well.

So all those who're looking for a cheap CAS go to the yard and find yourself a Ford Festiva. Nobody wants parts off of those. Got the CAS for $20.

Sequential COP, here I come!!
The_Pipefather is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2008, 10:57 PM   #16
Junior Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: N/A
Posts: 360
Total Cats: 0
Default

escort gt distributor...

mikeflys1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2008, 11:20 PM   #17
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (5)
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Troy, MI
Posts: 860
Total Cats: 13
Default

There are two types of escort GT distributor, the one above and the magnetic type posted by y8s, except with one inner ear.

The point is, now that the requisite signal is in place, how to get 4 outputs out of the MS. I'll be researching and implementing this in the coming week.
The_Pipefather is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2008, 06:45 PM   #18
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (5)
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Troy, MI
Posts: 860
Total Cats: 13
Default

This is the distributor I have:





I plan to install it this weekend, run with the stock coils for now, and then upgrade to COP.
The_Pipefather is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2008, 06:49 PM   #19
y8s
2 Props,3 Dildos,& 1 Cat
iTrader: (8)
 
y8s's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Fake Virginia
Posts: 19,038
Total Cats: 407
Default

that's pretty awesome. saves you having to mod anything!
y8s is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2008, 07:30 PM   #20
Elite Member
iTrader: (39)
 
Zabac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: High Point NC
Posts: 4,854
Total Cats: 8
Default

Pipe, seriously...you think this will work?
I am very ignorant when it comes to electronics, but I do inderstand when someone explains something.
So, are you saying that, if I get an Escort GT CAS (I have a 94 1.8) that it will fit right in place of my CAS and i'll be able to run two extra wires (which you will explain I am sure) from my MS (standalone) to my coils and have sequential ignition?
Will this be possible on 94+ cars?
Will this work on parallel installs? I am asking for others...
Will this work on NBs? Also for others...

Thanks,
Dan
Zabac is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Raleigh: Fiberglass headlight scope, 1.6L ECU, AFM, Hardtop latches, more bigmackloud Miata parts for sale/trade 13 09-22-2017 01:34 PM
Low oil pressure after 1.8 swap and new turbo setup JesseTheNoob DIY Turbo Discussion 15 09-30-2015 03:44 PM
01-05 Fab9 PNP COPs (used) FrankB Miata parts for sale/trade 6 09-30-2015 12:48 PM
NA Seat Sliders and Seat Belt Receivers skipstr Miata parts for sale/trade 2 09-28-2015 11:53 PM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:23 AM.