Setting base timing
#1
Setting base timing
Ok so my MS3 Basic is in. I've calibrated my wideband, sorted my MAP sensor and wiggled my TPS so can now set my base timing.
I follow the instructions to set fixed timing from Rev.
So i connect my timing light to the alternator cap as positive and the throttle cable mount as ground slide the induction sensor loop clamp thing over cylinder 1's HT lead.
Set my advance to 0° so it shows the correct reading.
I crank the car and it leaps into life.
Here is my concern though.
I follow the instructions to set fixed timing from Rev.
So i connect my timing light to the alternator cap as positive and the throttle cable mount as ground slide the induction sensor loop clamp thing over cylinder 1's HT lead.
Set my advance to 0° so it shows the correct reading.
I crank the car and it leaps into life.
Here is my concern though.
- AFR shown is 7.5 which is bad
- Timing mark is not even visible under strobe (video included)
- CAS has slipped at some point due to improper bolt tightening (how can I fix this accurately?)
- The car is not at fixed timing as it is warming up. Wait 10 minutes of running and try again.
- Timing belt is totally fucked and its only through Thor's mighty graces that my car has never exploded (although its only done <10,000 miles)
- I am a complete spanner and should be using the timing light with the advance set to what i am looking for (ie 10°)
Last edited by rrjwilson; 03-27-2019 at 01:19 PM.
#2
So I have cleaned the timing area up a bit, found the notch and marked it.
Results have not changed however.
The interesting part is using the timing advance wheel on the timing light i can bring the notch into view (video linked).
The concerning part is the timing advance is way past the measured limit of 60° and is approximately 75° advanced.
Possible Epiphany the CAS is reporting on something it sees NOT is interacting with and because the crankshaft and camshafts are linked via the timing belt the CAS is imply talking ****.
Please can someone who tinkers more than me tell me I'm not mental in this idea.
This means a manual CAS realignment and subsequent tightening will solve the timing "error" because it is not an error its a lack of accuracy because the sensor is reading in the wrong place.
Results have not changed however.
The interesting part is using the timing advance wheel on the timing light i can bring the notch into view (video linked).
The concerning part is the timing advance is way past the measured limit of 60° and is approximately 75° advanced.
Possible Epiphany the CAS is reporting on something it sees NOT is interacting with and because the crankshaft and camshafts are linked via the timing belt the CAS is imply talking ****.
Please can someone who tinkers more than me tell me I'm not mental in this idea.
This means a manual CAS realignment and subsequent tightening will solve the timing "error" because it is not an error its a lack of accuracy because the sensor is reading in the wrong place.
Last edited by rrjwilson; 03-28-2019 at 04:28 AM.
#3
Moderator
iTrader: (12)
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 20,650
Total Cats: 3,011
The outer ring with the marks is a separate piece from the center. The two are bonded with a rubber ring between them. Your rubber has failed and you need to consider a replacement. This is common and something you should have noticed being mentioned by others.
#4
Thank you. Part ordered (before 1pm delivery).
I simply didn't realise this timing swing was a symptom of that.
Is there ANY chance that it is not the rubber? ie the CAS has just slipped or something else minor I only ask because it doesn't seem to wobble.
So it looks like its a simple procedure:
A working VVT motor with warranty delivered is £280. So I could have just done that but I have no where near that sort of time because of the insurance.
This however has spurred my anger to move up because I could have just swapped it out.
I simply didn't realise this timing swing was a symptom of that.
Is there ANY chance that it is not the rubber? ie the CAS has just slipped or something else minor I only ask because it doesn't seem to wobble.
So it looks like its a simple procedure:
- Remove belts
- Undo four bolts
- Swear with penetrating fluid and hammer
- Remove pulley
- Install new pulley
- Do up four bolts to torque (which i haven't looked up yet)
- Install belts
A working VVT motor with warranty delivered is £280. So I could have just done that but I have no where near that sort of time because of the insurance.
This however has spurred my anger to move up because I could have just swapped it out.
Last edited by rrjwilson; 03-28-2019 at 06:48 AM.
#5
Moderator
iTrader: (12)
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 20,650
Total Cats: 3,011
It isn't uncommon for people's timing marks to be 90° out and the motor operating as if nothing is wrong. It just makes it nearly impossible to time the ignition again after they have moved.
#8
New pulley arrives tomorrow.
Plenty of swearing will commence.
I would love to attempt to find TDC although cranking the engine by "hand" seems like i should be really hard. It surely isn't just yank on the crank bolt.
I can probably create a piston stop or use a long screwdriver.
Plenty of swearing will commence.
I would love to attempt to find TDC although cranking the engine by "hand" seems like i should be really hard. It surely isn't just yank on the crank bolt.
I can probably create a piston stop or use a long screwdriver.
#13
I'm going to post this as I have found it odd.
I have a long nose pulley 8 slots but I couldn't get the pulley off without taking out the crank bolt as the bolt simply covered the opening that should have let it just slide off.
All long noses are meant to be the same 4 bolts for the pulley and it just slides off. Short noses are the sods where the crank bolt must come off.
So I am concerned that i have a short nose with a long nose pulley or a long nose with a short nose bolt.
Of course there is the possibility (haven't looked) that it is a short nose retaining washer thing and long nose everything else.
Here are my pictures for your perusal
I have a long nose pulley 8 slots but I couldn't get the pulley off without taking out the crank bolt as the bolt simply covered the opening that should have let it just slide off.
All long noses are meant to be the same 4 bolts for the pulley and it just slides off. Short noses are the sods where the crank bolt must come off.
So I am concerned that i have a short nose with a long nose pulley or a long nose with a short nose bolt.
Of course there is the possibility (haven't looked) that it is a short nose retaining washer thing and long nose everything else.
Here are my pictures for your perusal
#15
She's ALIVE.
Gotta get her *** of the jack stands now.
Went full bore and bought TunerStudio MS Ultra and MegaLogViewer HD so can do anything that is necessary.
Of course I basically watching YouTube all the time to learn.
There is just so much more information displayed in TunerStudio in comparison to the Emerald software. The difference 12 years makes is immense.
Gotta get her *** of the jack stands now.
Went full bore and bought TunerStudio MS Ultra and MegaLogViewer HD so can do anything that is necessary.
Of course I basically watching YouTube all the time to learn.
There is just so much more information displayed in TunerStudio in comparison to the Emerald software. The difference 12 years makes is immense.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
s10383
General Miata Chat
3
05-17-2007 12:10 AM