+++Somewhat URGENT+++ Switching to MS2, 36-2 Timing Wheel on a 1996 Car - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 06-03-2014, 09:56 PM   #1
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Default +++Somewhat URGENT+++ Switching to MS2, 36-2 Timing Wheel on a 1996 Car

Ok guys, I don't ask for help on here often. And I give more than my fair share of advice. I have done several forum searches and a few google searches and haven't found what I am looking for. I might be an idiot and this has been discussed 1000 times. If so....call me an idiot and send me the link. So Here I am...hat in hand....looking for someone to point me in the right direction.

My car has been running a MS1 PNP with all the stock 1996 sensors and whatnot.

I am moving to a MS2 PNP with a 36-2 crank wheel and have a few questions / issues I am looking for clarification with.

1) I have read that the 1996 Crank sensor will not work with the 36-2 and that I should purchase the 99-05 sensor which I have done.

2)I cannot use the 99 cam sensor due to my valve cover, but I have been told that I can modify the CAS to output 1 pulse per camshaft revolution vs two by cutting off one of the "tangs" on the "two tang wheel." Before I destroy a CAS I was wondering if anyone here has actually done that...and if so which "tang" did you cut off.

3)I am reading the instructions on the 36-2 crank wheel from Flying Miata and it discusses making changes to the wiring for the CAS and for the Crank sensor. I am wanting to find out if these changes are Hydra specific or if I will need to do them with the MegaSquirt.

Any and all help you can offer would be GREATLY appreciated.
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Old 06-04-2014, 01:53 AM   #2
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I'm not of much help having never run a non-oem trigger wheel, buttttt: I remember I think soviet doing something exactly like this. check his thread. though he's on ms3, but he did modify a cas by cutting teeth like you're saying
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Old 05-12-2015, 06:26 PM   #3
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What was the outcome with this?I'm in the same boat. So many dead end threads.
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Old 05-12-2015, 06:29 PM   #4
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Just did Mobius' 36-2 install. You know, before the crash. Just changed to 36-2 in TS and set latency to 100ms. What's the wiring FM describes?
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Old 05-12-2015, 08:13 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curly View Post
Just did Mobius' 36-2 install. You know, before the crash. Just changed to 36-2 in TS and set latency to 100ms. What's the wiring FM describes?
Was year was Mobius' car?
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Old 05-12-2015, 08:39 PM   #6
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I'll check fm again. Soviets build is like 98 pages long.
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Old 05-12-2015, 11:16 PM   #7
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FM doesn't say anything about it on the websites, they don't even list the 32 2 as a separate option. Mobius build is 30 some pages a well. I read backwards from the crash. At page 16 I had yet to find anything. It's late, I have to go go bed now.
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Old 05-13-2015, 10:34 AM   #8
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back of head CAS can be modified too. Doesn't matter what valve cover you run.
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Old 05-13-2015, 12:04 PM   #9
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Some of my confusion is also this :

vvt engine does not use a cam angle sensor, but on my NA engine with vvt I DO need to run it??
The mega vvt thread sas yes I do, but I read other posts saying that it is redundant? I knew that adding VVT to my recipe was going to add to my confusion, so pleas excuse my ignorance.
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Old 05-13-2015, 12:12 PM   #10
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vvt engine does use a cam angle sensor. different sensor from your na8
You're thinking of your giant CAS on the back, the stupid dizzy thing or whatever else they call it.

bp6d has a small cam sensor on the back of the valve cover, same one the bp4w uses on teh front of the cover
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Old 05-13-2015, 12:36 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryansmoneypit View Post
Some of my confusion is also this :

vvt engine does not use a cam angle sensor, but on my NA engine with vvt I DO need to run it??
The mega vvt thread sas yes I do, but I read other posts saying that it is redundant? I knew that adding VVT to my recipe was going to add to my confusion, so pleas excuse my ignorance.
If you're still running the cam sensor on the back of the cam, then the VVT one *CAN* be redundant. You can use either to run the car but to run VVT you'll need the one that measures the moving cam... otherwise how will you know it's moving relative to the crank when your timing belt is still intact?
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Old 05-13-2015, 12:47 PM   #12
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You sheddith the light.
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Old 05-13-2015, 02:31 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafa View Post
Was year was Mobius' car?
2001

Quote:
Originally Posted by ryansmoneypit View Post
FM doesn't say anything about it on the websites, they don't even list the 32 2 as a separate option. Mobius build is 30 some pages a well. I read backwards from the crash. At page 16 I had yet to find anything. It's late, I have to go go bed now.
I'll see if I can dig up the FM instructions for the ATI trigger wheel in my tool box, but it might've been shipped back to Mobius with the car.

Here's some clarification:

1.6 has a CAS (cam angle sensor) (red) on the rear of the intake cam. No crank sensor, it's read off the CAS, "translated" from a cam signal to a crank signal for the ECU.



NA1.8 has a CAS (cam angle sensor) (red) on the rear of the exhaust cam. OBDII (95.5-97) NA8s had an NA crank sensor, still a 4 tooth, I think.



99-00 has a CMP (CaM Position sensor) (red) on the front of the intake cam sprocket, and a CKP (CranK Position sensor) (not pictured) reading a 4-tooth wheel on the crank.



01-05 non MSM have the same CKP (wiring plug circled in blue) and CMP (red), except the CMP is on the back of the intake cam. They also have the VVT solenoid of course. (yellow)

Attached Thumbnails
+++Somewhat URGENT+++ Switching to MS2, 36-2 Timing Wheel on a 1996 Car-1.6_zps3atb5cm9.jpg   +++Somewhat URGENT+++ Switching to MS2, 36-2 Timing Wheel on a 1996 Car-na1.8_zpsu6phhjxq.jpg   +++Somewhat URGENT+++ Switching to MS2, 36-2 Timing Wheel on a 1996 Car-99%25201.8_zpsguykolb7.jpg   +++Somewhat URGENT+++ Switching to MS2, 36-2 Timing Wheel on a 1996 Car-vvt_zpssvm9okyp.jpg  
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Old 05-13-2015, 10:15 PM   #14
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Curly, that post is awesome. Thanks.
on a side note, the latest TunerStudio has a miata 32-2 setting.
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Old 06-21-2015, 10:36 PM   #15
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*Curly, that post is awesome. Thanks.
on a side note, the latest TunerStudio has a miata 32-2 setting.*

I am not seeing that option on the TS 2.6.19v in the Tach input/Ignition settings. I know if you select 'toothed wheel', you then can edit the Trigger Wheel Settings menu.

Is this determined by year of Miata and its base maps? Or the firmware of the MS?
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Old 06-22-2015, 03:33 AM   #16
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CORRECTION!

It is the new firmware for the Megasquirt that adds the Miata 36-2 options in the Ignition Settings tab. The new tab, Ignitions Setting will appear in the TunerStudio program and you can select Miata 32-2 in that menu.

I have the MSPNP Gen2 for the 99-00 and was looking to upgrade also to a Flying Miata 32-2 crank trigger wheel. But for the life of me I couldn't find anything online about how to select the 32-2 option without using some major MIT brainpower and computer savy.

I did a fresh install of TunerStudio 2.6.19v on my laptop and a MS2/Extra 3.3.3 firmware update of the MSPNP Gen2. I confirmed the option is available. Next will be seeing if the new firmware has any issues with tuning.
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Old 07-13-2015, 09:07 PM   #17
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3.3.3 firmware will not work with the Miata 36-2 ignition option. You have to use 3.4.0 firmware in order for it to work. The 3.3.3 fails to populate the correct data into TS, TunerStudio.
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