Trying to get started with MS3x
 

Need a little help...

91
Stock everything
Brain built ms3x


Ok here's a little background from Weds to this morning..

Weds - Installed TPS, installed MS, got everything set-up per brains gravy train manual. Car fired up and ran beautifully.... Until I went full retard. I didn't have a timing light at my house, and got impatient. Decided to drive it around the block with VE analyze on, and my USB cable went to shit and lost connection mid-drive. Still seemed to drive ok after cable went and I made it the rest of the way around the block to my house. Tried to re-connect, but cable wasn't cooperating. Decided to attempt driving it as-is 5 miles to the store to grab a cable. Broke down a mile down the road. Thankfully I still had the stock ecu and TPS, so I swapped them back in and went on my way to get the cable. Decided to wait till tomorrow to dig into it again.

Thursday - Tinkered around with it in the garage... Re-installed TPS and MS. Nothing groundbreaking... Still no start.

Today - Found out how to restore to original tune via back-up files... Flashed 1st back-up file and started from the beginning. Re-calibrated everything and set it all up per brains instructions again. Still crank no start situation. With a little throttle I can get it to run but it mis-fires and runs like shit.

Sooo where do I go from here? Will getting a log help or anything? I'm not even sure I know how yet cause I haven't gotten that far but im sure I could figure it out.

Is your MAP line pinched?

Could I get a copy of the setup manual? I just got a box with MS3 and cables.

Just checked... Didn't seem to be but I cut another piece of vacuum line and ran it through the window and tried again. Still nothing.

I'll see if I can find the file in my email. I've been using a copy I printed back in November lol

Weren't you having issues with TPS wiring/calibration? You're sure that's all resolved?

Yup switched the wires and got the correct readings. Everything is calibrated properly right now.

So are you running with AFM or no?

I also keep having this happen...

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1397223773

Nope go iat

youre using the onboard usb connector?

I'm using a 2.0 USB cable. Brand new belkin cable

I just thought I had some progress but it was just messing with me.... I had it running for about 10 seconds but stalled out again

did you log it so we can actually see why it stalled?

Of course not... But I got it to happen twice so I will start a log and try again until it happens.

Sooo now I have to figure out how to do a log and post it on here. Ill post back when I get it

Ok got one. How should I host it and put it in here?

Hopefully the log attached works...

looks like you posted a composite log, now how about a normal datalog?

I'm glad I'm not the only one that made this mistake. That damned tab!

:rofl:

Oops... Lets try this one...

Haha I was like oh this must be it! ...... Nope! Found the right one up top though lol

Not enough fuel in the idle cells? try bumping up your idle cells 5-8 points.
EDIT: And make them all consistent with your idle VE as well. Then turn them down in idle VE as needed to get to your target afr, then copy in the same values to your regular VE table.

Woot! It runs! Threw around 8 at both tables.... Still running a bit like shit but hell, it runs!

So I set it to fixed timing and checked it with my timing light.... Its reading crazy high... Like 16deg. I bumped the timing down in TS down to 5.5 and it starts to stumble and stall.... Its still only reading around 13-14deg when I check with my timing light. What gives?!

You might be at the limits of your CAS range as it sits. You can adjust in TS all day but if you've pegged the sensor than it wont reach where you want. Technically you can leave the trigger angle alone when you've set fixed timing in TS and physically adjust the CAS, turning until its at 10. You should be able to reach 10 using a combination of those methods! I'll try and find the helpful video I used if you still have no luck.

Ok I will try tweaking the CAS to get it back to 10. Thanks!

You are adjusting the trigger angle and not the map, right? don't be afraid to go into the negative range if that's what it takes.

Yes I was adjusting the trigger angle. I attempted to go as low as I could before stalling. I tweaked the CAS enough to level it out and the dot is bouncing around 10deg.

Soooooo how do I get this thing to actually rev enough to be able to ve analyze? I switched back to "Use Map" for the timing obviously.... But I cant even get the thing to move because its running like shit. Can't really get the RPM's above 3K. Its almost like the more I press the pedal the more it tries to die.... Its immediately when I let off the throttle that the RPM's jump up a little bit

Curry, I don't know if its different for a brain MS but here they again mention NOT to just keep adjusting the trigger angle. There's a point where it wont help and you need the actual CAS to move. See 4:15



BT if you suspect that you adjusted the trigger angle too far (the vid says past 50) then I'd take the trigger angle back above 50 and play with the CAS once more to get it back to 10. That may be the source of your shitty running? IDK just throwing it out there.

I know mine ran like poop at first cuz my TPS was reading inversely as it should. You said yours is all set now so IDK.

Do you have your AFR gauge set up yet? What's it reading? Its hard to differentiate super rich from lean at first. Its nice to have things like that in place to diagnose.

it's slightly different for the MS2 and MS3, but same concept.

I might put the MS on hold for now... Starting to get frustrated. Might have to move on to something else like swapping in my 6spd and FM clutch.

I just don't get how it fired up and drove beautifully Wednesday morning. I flashed back to the back-up file from Weds morning, and now it won't even start again.

P.S - I had no idea the variable TPS works with the stock ECU... I unnecessarily swapped sensors like 10 times in the last 3 days switching between MS/ stock ECU :vash:

Ok back at it again this morning. Found another guy's thread with a 1.6 ms3x map in it... So I flashed it to see what it did. Car now starts and idles Ok... stumbles a little when I hit the gas but it's a start.

So while it's idling, my LC-2 gauge is reading 7.5... while Tunerstudio is showing 14.5. I tried to drive it with VE analyze on for a minute and it immediately started cutting fuel hardcore. Stalled out a 1/2 mile down the road. Luckily I shut the car down, and went back to the original map and didn't keep the veal settings... So what I am thinking is that Tunerstudio is thinking my AFR is higher than it actually is, and rather than fine tuning the map, it is drastically cutting fuel to compensate for the off the charts AFR

Am I missing something? Was I supposed to calibrate the AFR to make it somehow read the same on the gauge and in Tunerstudio?

I think this explains why my car stalled and broke down on Weds too. I ran tunerstudio and it cut fuel... Cable broke and I couldn't get the original map back.

7.5? I don't think the car would even run at 7.5. Is black smoke spewing out the back?

Maybe I need to check my LC-2 wiring

sounds like the other way around?

Tuner Studio thinks AFR is higher, so it's trying to dump more fuel. Gauge is saying, "Please stop, too much fuel"

You definitely need to get the wideband calibrated in Tuner Studio before applying changes, otherwise it will be changing things for all the wrong reasons.

The only thing I did with the wideband was select LC-2 from the drop down in TS. Is there something else that needs to be done?

Do I need to calibrate the gauge itself? Its a brand new LC-2 I basically just took it out of the box, put it in the car and assumed all was right in the world

The map is cutting fuel (I'm pretty sure) ... When I ran VE analyze the numbers were getting smaller and the boxed it was adjusting were red... I am assuming that means the values were decreased

I am not sure about the lc2, but the lc1 requires you to do free air calibration on the sensor before use.

Well shit... I need to start reading instructions lol

Looking them over now

Sooo sensor is now calibrated.... But the MS is confused

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPgJ...ature=youtu.be

Did you use the two separate outputs on the lc2 and recalibrate the narrow to a wide? Or did you just splice off the wide for both the gauge and the MS?

^ Agreed, likely just needs to change the (brown?) output to wide.

Support :: Innovate Motorsports

Download Logworks. Plug in the lc2 serial cable to the output, reconfigure the second output config to match the first (yellow? goes to readout gauge in pillar)

The brown wire I have going to the MS.

All of the other wires go from the lc-2 to the gauge on my pillar

My laptop dosent have a serial connection... Looks like I am going to have to purchase the adapter cable sold on innovative's website. Why can't they just give you a USB cable?!?! Who uses serial cables these days lol


Since i'm going to have to wait for this adapter.. I guess my next question would be - If I run VE analyze right now without getting the gauge/MS to cooperate... Will I still be able to get a decent tune on the car with veal?

Short term option would be to just switch the wideband output (yellow) to the MS, verify output etc etc then VEAL.

Or just run to Staples or similar and get a usb to serial adapter.

Ok thanks i'll run out to find a cable

Edit - would I run the yellow to the MS + gauge, or just the MS?

Just run it to the MS and recalibrate the other output later if you want the gauge.

RadioShack dosen't carry these adapters in store... I will have to have one shipped to store and pick it up. beats paying for shipping that way I guess..

For now I am just going to have to temporarily run the yellow wire to the MS and do it that way until the adapter comes in.

What a relief! Ve analyze is working!!! Tunerstudio now shows the correct AFR after switching to the yellow wire

As soon as I can get out of work... I will be auto-tuning on the way home and probably a bit more tonight. So stoked to have this most of the way sorted!

The serial-usb adapter will be delivered to my local radio shack next week and I will be able to re-wire the LC-2 correctly and calibrate the gauge to the MS once I pick that up.

Glad to hear you're in the clear. I'm about a week behind you, waiting for my exhaust to show up.

Last weekend I couldn't find a straight through serial cable, but had the usb->db9. Somewhat surprised you couldn't find an adapter in a retail store.

I checked a radio shack, and a wal-mart. I never thought to try a different radio shack... maybe I should have. I guess its possible that one store could carry more than another.... Oh well as long as I can get my tune sorted I will be happy lol.

I will post some logs once I feel like the car is running a little better... Maybe one of the more knowledgeable guys can take a look at it to make sure it looks good :bigtu:

Ok so after running ve for a while... The car is running fantastic. Only one thing is concerning me and I'm not sure if it's a tuning issue or what...

When I push the gas pedal all the way to the floor... The car falls on its face in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. 4th and 5th are normal. Any ideas? I will try to get a log next time I drive it... Probably on the way to work tomorrow. Very happy that I got this mostly figured out now though :-)

log log log log!

I'm sure I really didn't need to start a new thread... But for some reason I did.

Here ---> https://www.miataturbo.net/megasquir...9/#post1121410

My last post in there has my current tune, and a couple logs that show the problem I am having. Look for 100% throttle and 4000 rpm's which it happens every time. Almost seems like a rev limiter... At 95% throttle, it acts completely normal, and everything feels smooth.