Upgrading MS1 to MS2.
Before I begin, how has the firmware matured? Is it finally at the stability that MS1 offers?
If yes. Have there been any threads discussing upgrading an MS1 to MS2? |
stability: has it ever been an issue?
threads discussing upgrading: yes. |
Any write ups on upgrading the DIY mspnp unit to MS2? Not sure how it differs. I know Ben mentioned he was going to do a write up but haven't seen it.
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should be as simple as moving some jumpers and replacing the cpu in that instance, then upgrading the firmware.
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Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 629082)
stability: has it ever been an issue?
threads discussing upgrading: yes.
Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 629093)
should be as simple as moving some jumpers and replacing the cpu in that instance, then upgrading the firmware.
To be totally honest, I haven't looked inside my MS in a while so I wasnt sure whats involved. I was thinking id have to rework all the tach and spark mods, If its as simple as putting in the new brain and moving the jumpers from the old brain to the right pins on the new brain, then excellent. My car is running excellent, so im wondering if its worth it or not you know. |
that was in reference to the MSPNP specifically. A v2.2 or v3.0 requires altering the tach input mods.
http://www.boostedmiata.com/gallery2..._0001_mods.jpg http://www.boostedmiata.com/gallery2..._0003_mods.jpg |
Looks pretty straight forward if my MS follows the same pinouts.
For example, I THINK, I already swapped my IAC2B and IGN for some reason. |
you still must swap it. otherwise just the tach input circuits get changed. pretty simply.
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Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 629115)
you still must swap it. otherwise just the tach input circuits get changed. pretty simply.
What kinda benefits did you notice with the MS2? |
before we settled on the "accepted" method of building the board/mods/harness there were variations on what outputs and pins we used for the two spark outputs. you probably had issue at that time. MS-2 outputs Spark A and Spark B in reverse of MS-I so you must swap the spark output leads or you'll be firing at BDC instead of TDC.
all of them. |
OH. I got what youre saying.
So give me an example of an immediate noticeable benefit of MS2 vs MS1. |
You must use two 2N2222 transistors for the spark output. Read it here. http://miataturbo.wikidot.com/ms2-a |
i wouldn't necessarily bother if you haven't the need yet. it solved an issue some people were having where the coils would ignite with key on and burn any residual fuel
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Originally Posted by Saml01
(Post 629127)
So give me an example of an immediate noticeable benefit of MS2 vs MS1.
PID closed loop idle control PID closed loop boost control EAE acceleration enrichments 16x16 fuel map finer fuel and spark resolution (100 times greater) seq. fuel & spark, at least even semi-seq. fuel with injection timing. |
Wirelessly posted
Originally Posted by Saml01
OH. I got what youre saying.
So give me an example of an immediate noticeable benefit of MS2 vs MS1. For one, MS2 has a bunch more resolution for more accurate fueling. My car runs a bit smoother everywhere than it did with MS1 hires. I'm also not sure you can run full sequential on MS1 due to lack of outputs. (?) But if you're about to upgrade then take a look at MS3 and see if those features appeal to you. I'm looking at it for onboard datalogging for example. The board mods you have to do would be the same for MS2 or MS3. Of course MS3 does cost more, but if you think you want to end up there you could save the 90 bucks or whatever the MS2 card costs and just put that towards MS3. |
MS3 is overkill for me. Its way more than I could want right now. Im completely happy with MS1 to tell you honestly, just debating if I should upgrade or not. So far I havent been in a single car that runs better or as close to stock as my own.
Post the threads you have bookmarked if you have a chance. Its not an emergency. |
Originally Posted by ScottFW
(Post 629148)
Wirelessly posted
I'm also not sure you can run full sequential on MS1 due to lack of outputs. (?) . |
Wirelessly posted
There are only a couple reasons to NOT upgrade IMO. One is if you don\'t have 90 bucks. Another is that you\'re worried you\'ll fuck up your MS doing the mods, and the third is you think your car won\'t run right after the upgrade. I\'ll admit I\'m no MS genius, but I can read and follow instructions and braineack\'s little how-to photos were all the info I needed and I didn\'t brick my MS. You will have to retune the VE table some after the upgrade. No big deal now since tunerstudio essentially does it for you. It will run great and you will have future upgrade options. Also FWIW I don\'t see why people use a stock car as a reference for the car running smoothly. My car ran a shit ton smoother on MS than it did stock, once I got it tuned. |
its insane how smooth my car runs on ms3 with full seq.
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Originally Posted by ScottFW
(Post 629226)
Wirelessly posted
There are only a couple reasons to NOT upgrade IMO. One is if you don\'t have 90 bucks. Another is that you\'re worried you\'ll fuck up your MS doing the mods, and the third is you think your car won\'t run right after the upgrade. I\'ll admit I\'m no MS genius, but I can read and follow instructions and braineack\'s little how-to photos were all the info I needed and I didn\'t brick my MS. Also FWIW I don\'t see why people use a stock car as a reference for the car running smoothly. My car ran a shit ton smoother on MS than it did stock, once I got it tuned. I use a stock car as a base for running smoothly because I imagine you cant make a car run better than the engineers that built it.
Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 629249)
its insane how smooth my car runs on ms3 with full seq.
I have to witness this smoothness, I cant imagine it running smoother than stock. If the MS3 is that awesome, I might as well as wait till it goes stable and make a bigger upgrade. |
Originally Posted by Saml01
(Post 629538)
I thought MS3 was still in beta stages?
you mean alpha... and your point? |
Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 629541)
you mean alpha... and your point?
But I can easily wait till it goes stable to upgrade. |
I've been DDing the firmware since March. I'm not even on the latest firmware as it's mostly to fix random things we'll never deal with and some communications issues I never see. The only thing they are really working on before the v1.0 release, which should be ready very soon, is fixing communications errors.
for example, here's the latest firmware updates: Changes since 0.26 Increase range for map sampling. Internal ReqFuel logic fixed for no. squirt / injectors etc. Semi-seq didn't work correctly with cam speed trigger wheel or dual+missing. Add config error for impossible sequential. Merge in PW4X changes. (Allows code to generate larger pulsewidths for low-revving large engines.) Allow up to 255% VE. Fix many ini errors detected with Megatune parser. SD card work. Initialises ok on three previously non-working cards. Tested ok on eight cards here. |
This is excellent, then ill wait and go straight to ms3.
Thanks Scott. |
If you really wanna push it, get the ms3X board as well and run seq fuel then redo your cop harness and run seq. spark as well.
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I will absolutely. Full sequential fuel and spark is about the biggest reason I would upgrade my MS.
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then go MS3, with the expander board it's crazy easy.
you pretty much select seq. fuel, tell it to output through the ms3x, and then simply connect the 4 injector outputs to your harness. done. |
Do the tach inputs need to be modified or brought in through the expansion board?
Can the injectors be triggered through the main board? |
Not if you don't want to and yes they can, but if you want sequential you want to use the drivers on the MS3X as you need 4 identical drivers.
You could use the V3 injector drivers to drive anything else PWM though like a WI valve or a 5th injector etc etc |
Awesome.
Thanks a lot for the info. |
Originally Posted by Saml01
(Post 629669)
Do the tach inputs need to be modified or brought in through the expansion board?
Can the injectors be triggered through the main board? you don't need the expansion board, it just makes life easy when you need 4 spark and fuel drivers. for a while I was running just the ms3 cpu on my mainboard...all i had to do was lift off the MS-II and swap on the MS-III, flash and load my ms-II map. When the MS3X was released, I modified my injector and cop harness to run full sequential out the ms3x board. the mainboard still has the tach and other circuits like the a/c, fan, clutch switch, etc. |
Yeah with MSIII and MS3x all the V3 is required for is providing power. it's a bit of a waste really.
Though if you want to use the stuff it provides all the better. |
yep. there's still a bunch in this that you don't need:
http://westfieldmx5.devocht.com/star...ents_empty.gif |
That's pretty nuts ill admit.
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pretty much everything on the left hand side of Brain's image isn't strictly required.
MS3 has it's own on-board USB communications, the LED's, well they're really not that useful. so that leaves power supply. Madness. |
Are they eventually going to consolidate everything? That's pretty ridiculous.
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I doubt it, the license part of MegaSquirt is bought when you buy a mainboard.
uS contains it's own license. At least that's how I understand it. You're not losing out though, everything the V3 board offers can still be used (VR/Hall sensor inputs, 2 injector drivers, PWM Idle driver 1 high current ignition driver etc. |
C1 is not needed IIRC.
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Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 629726)
yep. there's still a bunch in this that you don't need:
http://westfieldmx5.devocht.com/star...ents_empty.gif A single consolidated board is likely to happen - and would add some of the improved circuits that have been talked about here plus some new ones you haven't seen. It would, however, probably be SMD-only. |
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