Who do I throw my money at to test a dead MS3X?
 

After some fairly extensive testing I'm fairly confident the CPU V3 Daughter board is shot on my MS3X. It's the one from DIY Autotune that you assemble yourself. I was hoping to find someone local I may be able to test the mainboard with something like a V1 CPU to see if it's at least working on a basic level. Powered on both inside and outside the car with 12V to pin 28 (DB37) and ground to all grounds gives me nothing. I can't communicate with it via RS232 or the USB serial on the MS3 daughter card. Voltage testing appears to give the correct readouts on the CPU socket of the V3 board but I can't get anything to detect on any computer (I've tried Mac, Windows and even linux via minicom to detect COM ports. I can't get anything to detect. I'm positive it's not a driver issue as I've tried about 6 different computers and had a sanity check with a few experienced people. What are my next steps? I don't want to buy a shiny new V3 CPU only to find out my board is a CPU killer or vise versa. I need someone who has the right means of testing. I've lurked for a few years but this is my first time reaching out in a thread. Thanks in advance.

bump

Well... for starters it would be good to have your location in your profile.

Ah, that would be good info wouldn't it? I'm from Dallas TX. Just updated it, thanks.

if the cpu board is getting power and you're not able to connect to USB, then you'll need to talk to Peter Florence about repairing the CPU board most likely.

Welcome to PFTuning.com

If you think it's NOT the white cpu board, you can probably fix it yourself with some google and brian.

I'm thinking Brian has been pretty busy with personal stuff lately. We've been going back and fourth a bit but I haven't gotten much out of him for a while. I just bit the bullet and bought a jimstim that should get here soon. I'm sure it'll get used more than once and worse come to worse I can sell it when I'm done with it. I'll report back if I get much further when I do some proper testing. Is there much testing I can do without the CPU in place on a jimstim? I'm just looking for SOME form of life from the thing so I can have somewhere to start.

sorry, i misspelled "brAIn"

and I meant yours, not The Brain.

You can do a basic power test. To check for a short in the Megasquirt PCB, power up the Megasquirt on a Stimulator or on the car and check the following points for voltage with a multimeter.

You should find the same voltage as the battery voltage on the following points: S12, S12C, the center legs of Q9 and Q12, the left (non-banded) end of D3, the left leg of U5, and the left (banded) end of D9.

You should have 5 volts at the following points: S5, the two +5V holes in the proto area, the right (non-banded) end of D9, the right leg of U5, the left (banded) end of D19, and pins 1, 20, and 31 of the CPU.

Found a difference in voltages on the 12v rail:
11.3v:
S12
Q9
Q12
D3

10.6v:
S12C
U5
D9

I found a thread where someone had a very similar issue here: http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=66196

I thought I had a bad D12/ D13 diode, but I've replaced D10, D11 D12, and D13 with no changes in voltage

Any ideas on what else I can test?

I found a difference in my 12v readings but my 5v is fine at all of those points mentioned.

pics of board please.

Yes, there is a small voltage drop through some of the diodes; those measurements are within spec. So at least the board is powering up OK.

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B-G1NW6PZsTVU2hWcXRmb1dIb0E

Something worth mentioning, I get a solid fuel pump LED (FP) on the stim when powered on with the MS3 daughterboard. I only get a power LED when the board is powered without the CPU.https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...962b02d73.jpegLink to more pictures: https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B-G1NW6PZsTVU2hWcXRmb1dIb0E

why do you have the boot jumper installed?

I've tried with and without the boot jumper (specifically on the MS3 daughterboard)

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...4a119cf108.jpg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...10f84c401d.jpgtachselect in and out are jumpered on front of the board. (previous owner assembled it this way)
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...28c77b34f4.jpg


Here's some not-on-google-drive pics. I just went through and checked/ went over every solder joint and fixed any dodgy looking points. None of them were all that bad.

looks built correctly, so dunno.

So what next then? throw another MS3 daughterboard at it? I wish I could find another one just to plop in the board and see if it powers up so I know rather or not I need a new CPU. What other tests can I try? If I get voltages at all those points am I pretty much guaranteed to have a bootable daughterboard? I'm aware some people like Peter Florance can repair these daughterboard, I would just like to confirm it's the problem.

Any ideas what other voltage/ continuity tests I could try next? Is there a way I can see if the daughterboard is shorting somewhere or if a fuse was blown?

Figured out pretty quick not to reach out to anything other than a miata specific forum about this kind of thing. The only feedback I'm getting is people blasting me for not populating the entire board. :bang:

does the daughterboard cpu get stupid hot with power on?

Nope. Not even warm.

Pardon my stupids, but are these pins jumped on purpose?

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...acda788faf.jpg

It's not stupids. Yeah for NB2's the wiring harness needs to be jumped like that. It's specific to the trubokitty build.

It should update that, I just bridge in the db37.

I reached out to Peter Florance at PFTuning. He's gonna take a look at it. I need someone with more testing equipment and WAY more brain power than I do. :nuts:

just for S&G's ,remove that solder bridge. the purpose is to split the 12v input to power the MS into extra leads so you can power the vvt solenoid and idle vale because NBs power those up from the ECU. Just to confirm those are somehow causing a short on your 12v somewhere.

Does the 5 volt side drop out when the daughter board is connected? If you still have 5 volts when the daughter board is plugged in, you don't have a short; the problem is something else.

I just added that bridge recently while I was going over the board looking for problems, it wasn't working before I added it. I could remove it, but it's not the cause of the original issue.

I get 5v with CPU unplugged and 4.95v with the CPU in. My 12v drops from 12v to 11.87v when plugged in, so it must be drawing /something/ I found a more truthful wallwart that's giving me better voltage readings. I still only get a solid fp led.

That would suggest the CPU is OK. Does it respond to Port Check if you connect the boot jumper on the MS3 daughter board?

Nope. First one is with the MS3 daughterboard USB serial connector, Second is with a straight DB9 serial cable to DB9 port on desktop.https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...d4b1b6d6de.pngMS3 usb
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...6f373211ea.pngDB9
Same https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...2aacbeace4.jpgUSB
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...bc04ccc029.jpgDB9
Same solid fuel pump LED.

you're getting the FP light because that solder bridge is putting 12v on that pin. This mod is unique to have I do thing, and I should have elaborated on that a little in my writeup.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...0269e0544d.png
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...e49b087cb3.jpgRemoved the bridge
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...62020c1994.jpgSame thing...
The flux is dark, the board isn't burnt. No continuity between any of the three pins now.

:(

wanna send it to me before Peter, Im much cheaper than he'd charge, I may be able to spot something and if not, i just send it along to him.

That what you tell all the girls? :jerkit: lol I went ahead and PM'd you.

Peter is good people and knows his shit. Live right near me but you right, you pay for his expertise.

Does anyone know how I might reach Brian other than pm? Not trying to be a pest but I haven't gotten a reply in two weeks. Last thing we were talking about was shipping arrangements to another person. I need to coordinate between 3 people.

I replied twice to you via pm about it... once to say I shipped to peter and like just yesterday to your last pm. peter's had it for like a week now...

That's sort of what I thought happened. I think I screwed up our message somehow. I never received it in my inbox. Thanks for taking a stab at it. For anyone following this thread for whatever reason Brian pretty much confirmed my initial thoughts about the daughterboard MS3 CPU being shot. It's in Peter's magic CPU fixing hands now.

you know....

i thought i recognized that BMW.

Turns out the answer to the title of this thread is throw money at Peter Florance. The ECU is up and working with my JimStim. I've got just enough working parts to be dangerous. It was what I was suspecting from the beginning, a bad MS3 daughterboard. Thanks Brian for checking it out too! :eek5:
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...a40dde4d05.png

how much money was thrown?

One Benjamin Franklin and another Ulysses S. Grant. :burncash: Considering a new MS3 daughterboard is $230 and I had no way of knowing rather or not it would be fried the instant I installed it, I consider it money well spent. I for sure learned a lot diagnosing it in the initial part of this thread. There was a lot of research before I even thought about posting, so I found a lot of good info I'll store in the good-to-know section of my brain. I'm finishing up my harness now and might even do some sort of build thread since I'm slapping my Garrett T25 SR20 churbo on it soon. Managed to score my friend's complete stock 2.5" Focus ST exhaust that I'm going to persuade to crawl under the Miata. Hopefully I'll be driving Megasquirt-ed within the next few days.

Didn't see the initial thread, but I did the same thing like summer - threw money at peter, got back a working MS some time later. peter is good people. just keep on him, hes usually pretty busy.

Well, I figured maybe having an MS3X that can connect to TunerStudio would be enough for me to handle the rest on my own, but that would be too easy :bang: I finished my harness based on the Trubokitty guides and tuned my pots (3 times for a sanity check)
I can't get a crank signal. It runs great with the stock ECU with the only check engine lights being emissions related. I thought maybe my CPS was out of whack and needed adjusting so I adjusted it within spec (it wasn't that bad originally) I know the MS3X can see a crank signal with my JimStim, but nothing with it connected to the car. When it's in the car the composite logger shows "Empty read, No Data Received from Controller" I've gone over the harness a few times and am fairly confident everything is correct. It powers up and sees the majority of my sensors just fine. I've taken both composite logs (no data though) and normal logs through the SD card. I'm running matching firmware 1.4.1 and the base tune from trubokitty for my car (01-05)

Here is a link to my tune/ logs: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1zW...L0BJDSn0HzKZXq

Any ideas?

I found a few things I thought might help but still having the same issue (no crank/ RPM/ "Empty read, No Data Received from Controller")
I re-adjusted all 3 pots as per trubokitty guide-

"Turn R56 (12) turns to the fully counterclockwise, then turn it back 7½ turns clockwise."
---
"Turn both R11 & R32 (6) turns to the fully counterclockwise. Turn R11 back 3½ turns clockwise. Do not turn R32 clockwise."

Is it possible I could have some mid-year shift with it being a 2003? I know the guides show 2001-2002 are slightly different wiring:
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...3df1c5202e.png2003-2005
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...9b39c6eaf3.png2001-2002


Below is my most up to date tune/ data logs: (is there a way we can post files directly in a port other than pictures?)

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1F0...QT4qZfdK1LOunH

Check your oe harness against those.

Would there be any obvious differences? I see there's several unused connections that I'm sure have to do with the immobilizer and other things the MS3X doesn't use. It could be either one if every wire is populated in the connector.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...b7e5d46721.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...f3875118a4.jpg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...3acaef6072.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...aa2112931b.jpg

main thing is if power comes in on 4AF or if on 4S then you need to activate the main relay on 3H.

hard to tell but it looks like your W/R wire is on 4S.

Yup, 4S gets 12V like it's supposed to. I guess that rules out it being a 2001-2002 harness.

so my docs aren't very clear on 03-05, but you need an output to active the main relay on 3H -- without that output, the majority of the engine bay is unpowered. do you have this wired up?

All I have wired up is from following the pinout on the trubokitty website for 03-05. How is this output wired?

Sorry, I think I found where you've answered this before. https://www.miataturbo.net/megasquir...pin-4af-94001/

That's for an 05 MSM though, so confirmation would be neat. Would I only need to have "Inj E controlling the main relay." or also have "Boost controlling the charge light"

I'd assume I need to have these custom ("key maps" comes to mind) added to my tune somehow. Still have yet to mess with TunerStudio on a running car so I'm fairly new.

Msm is very similar wiring, just no vvt.

If you notice I have it going back to the mainboard. Because the x is filled up, you need to either sacrifice the cell, or use an LED circuit. But you can't use those if you have knock module.

Forgive my ignorance but why couldn't I just jumper 4S to 3H directly? Doesn't the main relay just need power with key on? If it's just the signal wire to the relay amperage shouldn't be an issue should it?

That's not how relays work. It needs a ground to activate...

Now before you say, why don't I just wire it to ground, the answer is: because you like charged batteries.

Going back to your original answer "you need an output to active the main relay on 3H" Are you talking a physically different connection? Or just a configuration difference in TunerStudio? If it's just a setting in TunerStudio I need to know what and how to change it. Sorry for all the questions but I really appreciate your help.