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Old 02-11-2007, 06:10 PM   #1
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Default IC vs Water Injection

I'm honestly absolutely clueless as to what water injection really is or how it works. Can someone lay down the basics, or at least point me in the right direction via a link?
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Old 02-11-2007, 06:22 PM   #2
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WI works on the basis of removing heat from the latent heat of vaporization, the amount of energy that it takes to convert a liquid into a gas. Both used in conjunction with each other is the best, and both have their own distinctive advantages. Intercooler, put it on, forget about it, but if it is fairly hot outside, the intercooler works less efficiently. WI, you have to refill it, but works great all the time. Also I noticed that the turbo now spools up quicker. But the nozzle can get clogged up and no more WI, which can result in your engine going boom.
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Old 02-11-2007, 07:38 PM   #3
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What sold me on WI was that it was banned in F1 and WRC for being too effective.

As far as clogged nozzles, there's a screen filter supplied with the DO kit...
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Old 02-11-2007, 08:06 PM   #4
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The nice thing about an I/C is that it won't fail and blow up the engine. I would personally use WI to compliment a well sorted setup with I/C. I feel like you'd be living on the edge a little bit with JUST WI. But that's just me.
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Old 02-11-2007, 09:57 PM   #5
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I like it on the edge.
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Old 02-11-2007, 10:03 PM   #6
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you've supplied me with exactly what I needed to know. I'm looking at purchasing a car with a greddy kit outfitted with WI, and I was thinking about installing an FMIC along with it if i could, assuming i purchase that car.

Thanks a ton. can i get a link or official name for this screen filter kit thing so i can search for it?
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Old 02-11-2007, 10:04 PM   #7
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I like it on the edge.
Yes you do, and didn't you crater a motor?
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Old 02-11-2007, 10:16 PM   #8
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1 piston if i had lifted then i woulda been ok. If the motor starts a knockin lift. I am still not gonna use a IC, or bipes so we'll see.
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Old 02-11-2007, 10:23 PM   #9
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The screen comes on the injector itself that comes with kits. If you want to get a good deal and a good product, try and pm wideopentuning, and he can hook you up with the devil's own kit and get you going for the cheapest price around. I was able to run a full 12 degrees with the greddy kit at stock boost. The car was extremely peppy at that boost with that amount of advance. I am one of the guys that is running around with only WI, but I am currently either going to do a hood scoop leading into an intercooler placed in between the motor and the radiator, or I will finish my safeguard idea that puts another nozzle in there and when the intake temperatures get above a certain point, it comes on too. But, good luck to you, and be careful when doing the tuning.
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Old 02-12-2007, 02:33 PM   #10
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I too run WI only, supercharged w/9psi currently. Works like a charm. Unless you are heavy on the throttle all of the time, you wont be filling up that often. I am about 1 gallon every 2-3wks right now.
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Old 02-12-2007, 02:56 PM   #11
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The nice thing about an I/C is that it won't fail and blow up the engine. I would personally use WI to compliment a well sorted setup with I/C. I feel like you'd be living on the edge a little bit with JUST WI. But that's just me.
Exactly. WI is extremely effective at lowering air temps, but there is a much greater risk that something could go wrong. Lifting when it knocks is great in theory, but is not very effective in reality.
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Old 02-12-2007, 03:44 PM   #12
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Exactly. WI is extremely effective at lowering air temps, but there is a much greater risk that something could go wrong. Lifting when it knocks is great in theory, but is not very effective in reality.
And this also assumes you can hear the knock. Loud exhaust, helmet, driving in anger ... I don't know if I'd hear it for sure. I'm also paranoid about normally inaudible knock. You can have pre-ignition with out being able to hear it in the best of circumstances. That's why I bought a standalone that includes knock sensing.

I still think WI is a great tool, just like an I/C and a good tune is.

Jay
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Old 02-12-2007, 04:31 PM   #13
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using distilled water will lessen the likelyhood of a clogged injector... I'm willing to bet that 90% of the time mineral deposits build up and cause the problem not some large particle that the screen can catch.
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Old 02-12-2007, 04:41 PM   #14
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I used about 1 gallon a day and a careless fill up where some dirt got in the tank and did me in was my culprit oh well. If U are to chicken to run WI fine leave it for the people who want HP. I here FM makes a nice safe 5K dollar kit for people like you. With a full ecu+ knock sensor etc/. As for me Even with the price of a new motor i am still way less than a FM kit, or begi for that matter. And i got several months of very fun and extreme use out of it before it went. I drive my cars hard but also spend whatever it takes to keep them right. Therefore i enjoy it when it runs right as well.
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Old 02-12-2007, 04:56 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by magnamx-5 View Post
I used about 1 gallon a day and a careless fill up where some dirt got in the tank and did me in was my culprit oh well. If U are to chicken to run WI fine leave it for the people who want HP. I here FM makes a nice safe 5K dollar kit for people like you. With a full ecu+ knock sensor etc/. As for me Even with the price of a new motor i am still way less than a FM kit, or begi for that matter. And i got several months of very fun and extreme use out of it before it went. I drive my cars hard but also spend whatever it takes to keep them right. Therefore i enjoy it when it runs right as well.
People like me? Is that some sort of racial slur against Canadians?

For the record I am not running an FM or BEGI setup. I've got a greddy kit with Starioin I/C. Started with Bipes/AFPR, then moved to Emange/AFPR and now have now purchased a Link. I get maybe six to seven months out of the year to drive my car and enjoy it. I want to spend the time driving and not fixing.

I'm not chicken to run WI. I just know better than to think that WI is the be all end all. Why are you so emotional about Water Injection? Did an Intercooler beat you up in grade school or something? I have a hard time taking tuning advice from a guy that cooked a motor and didn't learn from it.

And show me where anything I said was false or biased?

Jay
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Old 02-12-2007, 05:06 PM   #16
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Jay, If you have a knock sensor and a Link, wont that cure the problem with pre-ignition? If the sensor reads a knock, does it not retard the timing? Cause if it does, then you dont have anything to worry about, right?
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Old 02-12-2007, 05:11 PM   #17
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What didnt i learn motor costs money mustang still lost. oh well i take the consequences of my actions in stride. I meant people who have alot of $$ to throw at the car. And dont seem to like to be adventurous and make things themselves. After all the over heating issues and plumbing night mares ive seen on IC's and the fact that they are bulleyes on your front end. Make me think that they are overrated, and in that sense not the end all be all of tunning and reliability. WI is perfect for me, works great and is totally adjustable. i still have 50 more gallons of methanol to use and maybe ill go through it this year who knows i do know it will be fun. And it will be fast. I never said you where wrong i simply implied that you didn't seem like the type to stray away from the norm of things thats all. FTR i ran 15-16 psi with shitty driveability with my impractical WI and safc some 460's and stock 10 BTDC timming damn walboro 255+ the 1-1 rising rate of the stock fpr made tuning very tough esp when a WB02 wasnt available. So i leave you to spend money on what has been proven and is accepted. While I and my fellow risk takers will continue our experiments. Also i love canadians they are good people but some of you seem to abit confrontational esp on the internet. I dunno. just chill out dude. there is always something that needs to be fixed might as well be the car.
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Old 02-12-2007, 05:14 PM   #18
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Jay, If you have a knock sensor and a Link, wont that cure the problem with pre-ignition? If the sensor reads a knock, does it not retard the timing? Cause if it does, then you dont have anything to worry about, right?
Would certainly be better than not having a knock sensor. But it still has to be knocking before it pulls timing or adds fuel. And a sudden event like a clogged nozzle might do too much damage before the ECU has time to adjust.

Honestly if I was running a supercharger I'd prefer WI over an I/C. The beauty of a S/C is that torque curve, keeping throttle volume down makes it more repsonsive. I think an I/C hurts a supercharger in that area. WI is a good solution I think. I don't think it matters as much with a turbo, so I'll take an I/C and not have to worry about the issues that WI brings with it.

Eventually when I've got my car all sorted out I'll run WI in addition to my I/C and a good solid tune.
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Old 02-12-2007, 05:16 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by magnamx-5 View Post
What didnt i learn motor costs money mustang still lost. oh well i take the consequences of my actions in stride. I meant people who have alot of $$ to throw at the car. And dont seem to like to be adventurous and make things themselves. After all the over heating issues and plumbing night mares ive seen on IC's and the fact that they are bulleyes on your front end. Make me think that they are overrated, and in that sense not the end all be all of tunning and reliability. WI is perfect for me, works great and is totally adjustable. i still have 50 more gallons of methanol to use and maybe ill go through it this year who knows i do know it will be fun. And it will be fast. I never said you where wrong i simply implied that you didn't seem like the type to stray away from the norm of things thats all. FTR i ran 15-16 psi with shitty driveability with my impractical WI and safc some 460's and stock 10 BTDC timming damn walboro 255+ the 1-1 rising rate of the stock fpr made tuning very tough esp when a WB02 wasnt available. So i leave you to spend money on what has been proven and is accepted. While I and my fellow risk takers will continue our experiments. Also i love canadians they are good people but some of you seem to abit confrontational esp on the internet. I dunno. just chill out dude. there is always something that needs to be fixed might as well be the car.
You are right. I give up.
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Old 02-12-2007, 05:19 PM   #20
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Thank you Jay
Everyone else BTW
I had several severe knock instances while tunning and or ******* up and learning. But through daily use i got no knock. Ive had the turn on point to high, the pump pressure to low, run out of fueling, etc. All while tunning the very first turbo i ever laid a wrench to much less owned. so what exactly didn't i learn in going from 6 psi to 15-16 on daily use in 7 months? I remember what happened in the pst and will strive to improve onit that is who i am i hate leaving things slow or weak and i like pushing the limits on what people say can be done. I am no sunday driver of a turbo miata but a hardcore miataphile, who pushes his **** to the limit. Isn't that what all of us strive to be in some form or another?
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