Individual runner WI + intercooler outlet? - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Methanol/Water Injection Place to talk about meth/water injection.

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-08-2010, 10:38 AM   #1
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 8,782
Total Cats: 119
Default Individual runner WI + intercooler outlet?

I'm thinking about setting up WI for individual runners and the intercooler outlet. Thinking about it, on the plus side there are the benefits of air chilling and also "direct port" water to combat detonation. On the negative side, I think this could be difficult to tune and I'm also not sure how to set it up properly.

I'm thinking a Y splitter with one fork going to the IC and the other going to the IM would work. Fork the IM Y again and then fork the fork for 4 nozzles for the runners. Use same sized .5 nozzles for the runners. Maybe use a .8 nozzle for the IC?

For tuning, I think it might be best to tune both the IC and IM WI separately to get food flow targets, then plug em both up and mess with the maps or the nozzles to get things right.

What do you guys think?
Faeflora is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2010, 01:51 PM   #2
Elite Member
iTrader: (39)
 
Zabac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: High Point NC
Posts: 4,854
Total Cats: 8
Default

Useless...
Dont complicate things more than you have to.
Zabac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2010, 03:23 PM   #3
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 8,782
Total Cats: 119
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zabac View Post
Useless...
Dont complicate things more than you have to.
Why useless?
Faeflora is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2010, 03:57 PM   #4
Junior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: seabrook nh
Posts: 397
Total Cats: 0
Default

i know of a couple guys who did individual jets on their MKV GTI.. they saw no diffrence between that and using just a single port. the effort to go about setting up the extra ports was a waste of time.. they said it wouldnt have been a total loss if there was any gain.

i know its not on a miata but they were doing the same thing.
bayside blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2010, 04:47 PM   #5
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 8,782
Total Cats: 119
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bayside blue View Post
i know of a couple guys who did individual jets on their MKV GTI.. they saw no diffrence between that and using just a single port. the effort to go about setting up the extra ports was a waste of time.. they said it wouldnt have been a total loss if there was any gain.

i know its not on a miata but they were doing the same thing.
Interesting. I want to do individual runner though to make sure each cylinder gets the same amount of water.
Faeflora is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2010, 05:55 PM   #6
Junior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: seabrook nh
Posts: 397
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by faeflora View Post
Interesting. I want to do individual runner though to make sure each cylinder gets the same amount of water.
ya thats what im talking about.. they stuck a nozzle on the under side of the intake manifold in each one of the runner.. ill see if i can dig up some pics
bayside blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2010, 06:02 PM   #7
Elite Member
iTrader: (2)
 
fooger03's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 4,132
Total Cats: 187
Default

cold side of the intercooler should get the cylinders damn near identical, the air is turbulent enough coming out of the IC, and there's plenty of distance before the manifold. A lot of guys aim jets at the throttle plate, and dont have any problems whatsoever
fooger03 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2010, 06:16 PM   #8
Junior Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: seabrook nh
Posts: 397
Total Cats: 0
Default

im still looking for another set up which showed how he used only T's for distrubiting the meth. but anyway heres one

Name:  c68430d8.jpg
Views: 2
Size:  59.2 KB
Name:  a18419b9.jpg
Views: 3
Size:  36.7 KB
bayside blue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2010, 10:38 PM   #9
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 8,782
Total Cats: 119
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bayside blue View Post
Woahhhh WTF is THAT. I was going to use Ts or Ys but that **** looks much sturdier.
Faeflora is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2010, 11:14 PM   #10
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago (Over two miles from Wrigley Field. Fuck the Cubs. Fuck them in their smarmy goat-hole.)
Posts: 26,317
Total Cats: 1,915
Default

You can get distribution manifolds like that from a variety of suppliers. DevilsOwn has a few of their own, which accommodate standard 1/8 NPT fittings: http://www.alcohol-injection.com/dir...ifold-129.html

If you have a drill press and some scrap aluminum bar stock lying around, they're not difficult to make. While you're at it, you can switch from press-in fittings to screw-type compression fittings if you want. Check your local ACE hardware for the fittings- they're the same ones you use to connect icemakers and in-counter filtered water dispensers.
Joe Perez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2010, 11:46 PM   #11
I'm Miserable!
iTrader: (11)
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Texas, 'Murica
Posts: 2,505
Total Cats: 7
Default

Your going to need individual ones. Because one nozzle WILL NOT cool all the cylinders easily. LULZ
chicksdigmiatas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2010, 12:01 AM   #12
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 8,782
Total Cats: 119
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
You can get distribution manifolds like that from a variety of suppliers. DevilsOwn has a few of their own, which accommodate standard 1/8 NPT fittings: http://www.alcohol-injection.com/dir...ifold-129.html

If you have a drill press and some scrap aluminum bar stock lying around, they're not difficult to make. While you're at it, you can switch from press-in fittings to screw-type compression fittings if you want. Check your local ACE hardware for the fittings- they're the same ones you use to connect icemakers and in-counter filtered water dispensers.
Thank you! What is your opinion about my original question Joe?
Faeflora is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2010, 12:02 AM   #13
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 8,782
Total Cats: 119
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chicksdigmiatas View Post
Your going to need individual ones. Because one nozzle WILL NOT cool all the cylinders easily. LULZ
??????????????? WTF does this mean? I'm guessing you're being sarcastic and don't know much on the topic?
Faeflora is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2010, 12:08 AM   #14
Elite Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 8,782
Total Cats: 119
Default

BTW FWIW here's some post I found on an Evo forum straight from Mr Aquamist himself recommending my idea.

http://forums.evolutionm.net/4187845-post21.html

If there were a god though, he's not it so I am still interested in hearing other people's opinions.

And here is a post from mr snow performance recommending this also

http://forums.evolutionm.net/7776022-post14.html

Last edited by Faeflora; 09-09-2010 at 12:23 AM.
Faeflora is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2010, 12:17 AM   #15
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago (Over two miles from Wrigley Field. Fuck the Cubs. Fuck them in their smarmy goat-hole.)
Posts: 26,317
Total Cats: 1,915
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by faeflora View Post
Thank you! What is your opinion about my original question Joe?
My opinion is that I had six Mojitos with dinner, and it's a miracle I was able to walk the four blocks back to the hotel, much less log into the forum and post a link to the DO manifold. You don't want to be listening to anything I might have to say about nozzle sizing right now.
Joe Perez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2010, 12:17 AM   #16
Murderator
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 36,185
Total Cats: 2,582
Default

I don't really understand the idea behind having it in BOTH places.

Just makes no sense to me.

Either do 1 big nozzle or 1 small per cylinder. Why create a clusterfuck of potential failure points?
18psi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2010, 12:19 AM   #17
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago (Over two miles from Wrigley Field. Fuck the Cubs. Fuck them in their smarmy goat-hole.)
Posts: 26,317
Total Cats: 1,915
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
I don't really understand the idea behind having it in BOTH places.
Yeah, that. Pretend I wrote what 18psi wrote, only with big words like "elucidate".
Joe Perez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2010, 12:22 AM   #18
Boost Pope
iTrader: (8)
 
Joe Perez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chicago (Over two miles from Wrigley Field. Fuck the Cubs. Fuck them in their smarmy goat-hole.)
Posts: 26,317
Total Cats: 1,915
Default

For what its worth, I strongly question the notion that evaporative cooling prior to the combustion chamber is the principle method of action of WI insofar as its anti-detonant qualities are concerned. I haven't done any original research on the topic, but a lot of what I've read of the old NACA studies suggests that the presence of water mist in the combustion chamber endzone during the compression cycle is where the real jello's at.

IOW, further away from the chamber inlet != better.
Joe Perez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2010, 12:33 AM   #19
Senior Member
iTrader: (8)
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Navarre, FL
Posts: 1,127
Total Cats: 39
Default

1 big nozzle. no need to complicate it... most meth/water setups are all kind of a wild *** guess anyways exactly how much you are spraying.
aaronc7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-09-2010, 12:35 AM   #20
I'm Miserable!
iTrader: (11)
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Texas, 'Murica
Posts: 2,505
Total Cats: 7
Default

Sarcasm. Branching from arguing with Tom.
chicksdigmiatas is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Another Cast Manifold Corky Bell Prefabbed Turbo Kits 18 11-22-2016 10:01 PM
Back to Stock Part Out!! Turbo Parts, MS2 Enhanced 01-05, Suspension, and MOAR! StratoBlue1109 Miata parts for sale/trade 16 10-02-2015 10:39 AM
Time to start learning and play with tuning The Gleas MEGAsquirt 3 10-01-2015 10:30 AM
why is my car running like pewp? (tune/datalog) itsMikey MSPNP 3 09-28-2015 07:40 AM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:42 AM.