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Old 10-12-2011, 12:18 AM   #1
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Default meth nozzle spray pattern vs bung

hay guise

Re-doing my IC setup so this has come up. Right now I have my meth nozzle mounted directly into the aluminum piping. I was thinking this might be a good time to get a bung welded on for my nozzle, as I'm probably going to be getting one for IAT welded on as well.

My concern is, with the 1/8" NPT bung that I have for the nozzle, it's pretty 'thick', and if I were to screw the nozzle into there, the nozzle end would be pretty far recessed into the threading/hole. I don't know if this would affect the spray pattern of the meth/water, and 'wet the walls' and ultimately affect proper atomizing and mixing of the air/liquid. In normal atmospheric pressures, I think this would be an issue, but I'm not quite sure how the spray pattern, etc might change when operation on the car.

Anyways, any comments/recommendations? Any guys running with a bung currently? One idea I have is to grind the bung down to be thinner, but probably wouldn't end up that pretty, all I really have to do it with is an angle grinder, and I'm guessing there's probably better ways to do it than that.
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Old 10-12-2011, 11:09 AM   #2
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You should be able to find pictures of spray patterns. IIRC, they never seem to fan out more than about 45. As long as that doesn't impinge on the bung wall, you should be good. If anything, it should improve mixing because you're a bit further from the far wall. If the nozzle is more recessed than you would like, you can always tap the bung a bit more.
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Old 10-12-2011, 01:15 PM   #3
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its a DO nozzle...they already have a small recession built in, but also tapping the bung further isn't an option..if I had a pic you'd know what I mean, but I'm on phone at the moment. I did a test run on some spare aluminum piping...just drilling and tapping. Not many threads for it to grab onto...but its rock rolid. Throw some silicone in the threads it would be fine I think...I might just go that route, though it won't look quite as good.
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Old 10-12-2011, 02:39 PM   #4
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I run 6 nozzles.

Just hook the ************ up to the hose and spray that ****. Look at it with your eyeball and make your decision based on your observation. Pretty straightforward.
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Old 10-12-2011, 02:58 PM   #5
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I faced a similar quandary when I re-did my WI system a year or two ago. Previously, my nozzle had been pointing directly at a wall, and while I had no empirical evidence that this was a bad thing, it offended me.

I wound up re-building the pipe section which comes up from the intercooler and makes a 90 turn into the throttle body. I cut and welded a section of that pipe right about midway through the outside of the bend, to create a flat space for the nozzle to point directly into the throttle body.

On the bung, I had access to a lathe, so I just shortened it a bit. You could probably accomplish the same thing with a dremel after it's welded in.

I don't have a great picture, but you can kind of see it here:

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Old 10-12-2011, 05:01 PM   #6
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Faeflora... I'm not sure if the spray pattern will be the same in normal atm conditions vs inside ic pipe moving a lot of air...probably not. That's basically the question I'm posing here.. based on spray patterns I've seen it would def hit the walls of bung and bigger droplets would form for sure. Bottom line it would still work I'm sure, I just don't want to hinder it at all, might as well try and do it right this time around

Nice setup joe, ill either just drill and tap pipe as is, or try and grind down the bung some. It will be on a straight peice of pipe...if I mess it up I can always revert no problem.
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Old 10-12-2011, 05:47 PM   #7
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**** *****, then why not pour a bunch of food coloring in your water injection tank, do some sick boost pull, spray the naws i mean water, and turn engine off and look inside pipe?
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Old 10-16-2011, 04:43 PM   #8
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took the stuff to welder, he is basically just going to put a bead on the area where i want the meth nozzle to be.....then I can file that down, drill and tap, should give me about the thickness im looking for (at least for these DO style nozzles). ill post some pics
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Old 10-16-2011, 06:05 PM   #9
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Could you please tell us some about your meth/water setup? mixture you're spraying, failsafes, tuning experiences etc?
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Old 10-16-2011, 09:39 PM   #10
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i was thinking that you could have the bung cut in half or some how reduce its thickness so that the nozzle will stick out far enough to keep its pattern
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Old 10-16-2011, 10:33 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clos561 View Post
i was thinking that you could have the bung cut in half or some how reduce its thickness so that the nozzle will stick out far enough to keep its pattern
Yeah, that's actually what I did...took the cut in half bung to welder and he was concerned about welding it/was afraid it would end up screwing up the threads on the inside. So, he said he would just basically put a big bead on the area where I wanted to bung....and then I can just file it down flat, drill, tap, and be done. The DO nozzles only have 2-3 threads max, so it should work out well I think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faeflora View Post
Could you please tell us some about your meth/water setup? mixture you're spraying, failsafes, tuning experiences etc?
Stage 2 Devils own kit for a mazdaspeed 3.... It's designed to tap the voltage output from an existing map sensor, so I just ran a "MAP output" from MS into the controller... I think it's set to start spraying around 5 psi and full spray by 10. 3 gph nozzle for now with a 50/50 mix by weight. I was running -25F WWF with my old GT2560 setup, but since then I've found real meth locally, so mixing my own with that and distilled water. There was some mineral building inside the pipes/TB area a little, so I think WWF is just made with normal tap water...probably not a big deal, but when methanol is 3.50 a gallon and water is like 80 cents...not a big deal. I have a 5gph nozzle as well. I may step up to that when I build the motor and start running lots of boost...but 12-14 for now with stock motor and GT2871, I think 3 will be just fine.

I have the nozzle something like 4-6" from the TB... IAT sensor is right after the IC outlet, dont want the spray giving me any false IAT readings. Don't have any failsafes at the moment, but I have never tuned for power with meth/water....just tuned the car with it turned off, then I spray on top for safety. With that said.... I'm looking into rigging up some sort of pressure/flow meter and hooking it into megasquirt's table switching feature, and some sort of warning light, but haven't really started digging into it yet. If/when I get something like that and a built motor, then I would definitely be willing to start playing around with tuning and trying various meth/water mixes to see what gives me the best results. I ran anything from straight meth to 70/30 and 50/50 on the speed 3, I ended up sticking with 70/30, fwiw.
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