New high speed valve?
 

COOLINGMIST HSV $169. Found this by following a Google banner ad.
This might be the inexpensive HSV we need to run off our MS/EManage/other ecus.

And digging a little deeper, it looks like CoolingMist is only 45 minutes from me. Hmmm

Didn't you read their writeup?

"This can only be used with a Coolingmist Varicool controller."

:D

Seriously though, nice looking find. Must... Resist... Temptation to spend money...

yeah, whatever
I called them and asked for more info. They won't give anything other than what's listed. :td:

The owner is a serious fucktard. Likes to create drama. I have my banstick ready.....

Sweet. Thx.
I plan to stop by at their show room sometime in the next week or so. They said I can bring my DMM and poke around on it. But they can't give me any info because "a competitor would steal it."
:jerkit:

So you cant walk in take the measurements and then post them all over the net? What a friggin waste.

yeah, but also in their defense, they said they would give me a hand installing the valve to see how it works before I bought it. which was cool of them to offer.

but I don't have WI set up yet, and I was planning on using the DO stuff.

Ben,

I am a tech at coolingmist and saw your question here. We have been getting alot of questions and others that want to run this with an ECU or something other than Vari-Cool. Its not impossible of course, however the ECU or other PWM device must be within certain specs. I will be able to release full specs with you shortly, maybe tomorrow or Friday. These vavles are extremely fast and have a sweet spot of 400 to 600 HZ. If your ECU runs less than 400 HZ it will not be able to open and close the valve fast enough and you will get poor results.

I will be in touch with you shortly. If the moderator will be kind enough not to ban us I will be glad to post them on here for you.

haha that's really damn funny right there.

So the hydra can run 800 Hz. Too fast?

(I already have an aquamist valve, but I'm curious)

CMT1--thank you. And I will resist the urge :)

See....fucking fucktards. I think they think they are Aquamist or something....

Thank you for your kind words. You set a great example for everyone here. Do you think we should not protect our investment? My company has designed and engineered every single controller on our website. I doubt any other US methanol injection company can make that claim. When you spend the money and time to design products you need to protect your investment.

Engineering our products is an exhausting process and there are many "copy cats" out there.

We will be releasing certain information shortly about our valve. Infact, I would like work with BEN to make a nice PWM valve for his ECU. Even if our valve does not work great in its current state, perhaps we can make some engineering changes.

If you begin to turn this into the mess you have over in the SRT forums you are gone.

C'mon now, no banning the competition. :D

Its been stated many times by CM on other foums that DO is not their competition.

My first setup was built with parts from CM. The parts worked great but I got a bad vibe from the owner when watching how he conducted business online. Once I decided I wanted to sell kits I found Chance at Devils Own to be helpful. I think I moved 125+ in the last year...........thanks to almost everyone on this forum who is rocking a DO kit:bigtu:

CM can stay if they wanna play nice. Nothing wrong with another point of view. I have just seen how it goes.......

Second item in the sig, man. And it's been great so far- actually no problems to relate at all. I ended up with a pretty unconventional tank setup but it works for me.

Not to thread hijack too much, but I wish y'all had a nozzle that can be installed and removed from the outside. I bought one from coolingmist to play with, but it doesn't have a hex portion anywhere on it- it's all thread.

I'd really like to have something like the Aquamist nozzle, only with a 1/4" QD fitting rather than that push-barb thing. Oh well...

Keep squirtin'.

There are 2 sides to every story, we dont just bash someone for the purpose of doing it. When we see something as an attack, we dont hold back. Chance and myself have had many fights, I agree. About 6 months ago we sent each other PMs and called a truce. Neither of us have crossed that line. when people leave us alone, we respond in kind.


now if you quit bashing my company and slandering the owner like you have 2 times in this thread, we will all get along fine... deal?

To say that DO is not our competition is probably not accurate. I agree we probably said it exactly like that in the past. DO is not our DIRECT competitor. I think thats more accurate. We focus most of our efforts on our primary competitor, but all competition is good.

If anyone has any questions about the valve that I can answer feel free to ask. I will have more details later for a spec sheet.

Don't worry if he hasn't banned me for rocking snow performance parts i doubt he bans you :rofl: FWIW i run a coolingmist nozzle for my second stage. :D

don't come here and stir shit up and we won't have a problem. This isn't the SRT forum.

And yes, I'll be watching, BOTH sides WOT :rofl:

I have never done that and have no plans to. thanks :)

CMT, where's my spec sheet bro?

<--INPATIENT

I will post it as soon as I have it.

Finally, they committed your ass. :eek5:

I am not a inpatient but i am waiting rather huffily for these results.

Aye, you have at least 1 sale here if it's compatable with the MS

If this will work somewhat easily with MS, I will order one in the spring.

Does anyone have an idea of how many have the MS system and how many would be interested. As pointed out Im working on details and I hope to have them this week. If it turns out to not be compatible there is a chance we can develop one to work with it.

Also, once I post this data it would be great if someone local (Atlanta) can come to the shop (preferably before the city of Atlanta and metro area runs out of water in the next 80 days causing a massive catastrophic disaster that will make Katrina look like a trip to the candy store) Anyway, aside from my bantering, any ideas?

Also, can someone educate me a little on the Megasquirt system?

Thousands of people have MS ecu's. I can not comment on how many would purchase a HSV from you guys, but there is definately a hole in the market for a reasonably priced HSV. Your market isn't necessarily limited to MS either; there's tons of people with advanced piggy and standalone ecus that need such a solution.

I'm up by Road Atlanta, and willing to bring my vehicle to your facility in Norcross, especially if there will be some sort of consideration in terms of product :)

<edit> I am also willing to dyno the car to show before and after results.

If it isn't stupid hard to install i can do the same testing up in KY. I run WI as a standalone so if this works i might possibly ditch my 2 stage and go with a single stage on a bigger nozzle controlled by this.

I am interested in this valve if it is compatible with MS.

Ok, sorry for the delay. Here is the deal.

The minimum HZ to run our valve would be 400. its been tested as high as 12,000 HZ. The higher the HZ the better. If your at 800 HZ on the ms, that would work well.

If your at 250 or 300 hz I cant guarantee. Our valve is not an "on/off" valve that you see in alot of the older designs and some of the ones still used today. Ours averages the on time/off time giving a very nice flow response and exceptional repeatability. At 250 or 300 hz, the valve cant open/close fast enough and you will get some pulsation. The higher the frequency the better the results. 800 hz is going to be beautiful.

Thats all I need. I would like to see who wants to drive down my shop with the MS system and lets test it. Maybe we should do this before the total water ban :)

David

MS has 2 different WI outputs
1 output goes to ground when all 3 trigger points are met (RPM, MAP, IAT).
The other output activates when the 3 trigger points are met and pulses ground at the same rate as fuel injector channel 2.
http://megasquirt.sourceforge.net/extra/waterinj.html

If it's fast enough to drive a fuel injector, I'd think it's fast enough to drive yoru HSV too. Though that is an assumption on my part based on total ignorance.

The fuel injector is not as fast as our valve. But like I said 800 hertz will be very nice.

When do you want to stop by? Program a simple map to work off of RPM or TPS make a trigger of either of those with PWM so we can test the valve. My info tells me its going to work beautiful, but until we do a test I cant say for sure.

If you dont have time to stop by, I will be glad to to sell one to anyone that wants to try it. If it doesn't work, just return it for a refund.

CM

Are you taking that 800 Hz from my Hydra Nemesis comment?

probably, LOL.

anyone know what the MS runs at?

CM

I haven't found that one yet i am sure Jerry or mat at DIY autotune know but they haven't poped in.

A quick reference:

"PWM Frequency (Hz) (PWM_step): This is the PWM frequency in Hertz (cycles per second) used for the PWM Idle valve, when it is enabled. The PWM frequency can only be adjusted in steps of 80 Hertz, from 80 Hz to 800 Hz. "

http://www.megasquirt.info/megatune.htm

Should work, based on my brief readings. Anyone want to try it out, let us know.

CM

No--I'm busy using my idle valve for.... idle

I'll get with you re: testing it out on the WI output. But I have to get the hardware mods done first.

Well was just a quick search.

anyone that wants to try it out, call us so we can can sort this out.

David

I really don't think utilising the Idle control is worth persuing. For a start you'd lose Idle control, you wouldn't have much control over the amount of water injected either.

I've asked the frequency question on msextra.com

thread linky

I think everyone mis understood and frankly its my fault. Im very busy here, I did a quick search and did not read it carefuly.

CM

That's fair enough, you're also very green on MS so how were you to know. that's why I've asked the question on a specific MS site.

Disclaimer: I'm a MS newbie.

As far as I understand it, the MS1/Extra WI output gives a square wave signal that matches the fuel injector pulse i.e. the same frequency and duty cycle. The number of FI events per crank revolution is configurable but I expect that 1 injection event per crank revolution (i.e. 2 per engine cycle, alternating banks) would be typical. So for a typical engine running up to 6k rpm that would correspond to a maximum of either 50Hz or 100Hz. Having many more injector events per cycle is probably a bad idea because of the difficulty in getting accurate fuel metering at idle.

If I've understood you correctly the new HSVs you're considering are designed to act as proprtional valves at a much higher frequency. If you're using Aquamist style jets I don't know how well that will work; I can imagine these jets producing a very poor droplet pattern at lower supply pressure - perhaps you will end up with a dribble rather than a spray. Pulsing between fully on and fully off would probably work better. Is that something that is feasible with the new HSVs you're discussing?

PS first post here, Hi :wavey:

Our Valve has a nice advantage as can be both positional or on time/ off time. Positionary will give you far better results. Using on/off you will have a hard time to get rid of pulsing. When using positionary you will get a nice steady pulse free stream. If you wish to do an on/off style setup, by all means this valve can do it. Its very fast.

As a side note, Vari-cool has the ability to hook up to your computer, you can set the MIN dutycycle (as well as max and the curve). If you have a large nozzle, we recommend to move the dutycycle from 25% to 32% for the very reason you suggest.

The frequency range of the soleniod is 300 to 15,000 HZ.


CM

CM, thanks for your interest in expanding to the MS platform. I've been involved with the MS project for quite some time and have a decent working knowledge of the hardware, firmware, limitations, etc. Can you detail precisely what the HSV requires regarding logic/power to operate in the positionary mode? Is it directly frequency controlled, in that a higher freq causes a greater flow? Or is it duty cycle controlled at a static PWM freq in the 300-15K range? The first case can be handled by either of the MS injector channels driving a multiplier chip, the DC case could be handled by use of one of the other outputs and some relatively easy firmware changes.

Thanks,
-Mike

:bowrofl:

Thanks, let me try to help. Static frequency is fine, dutycycle controlled (See chart below). As you give more current to the valve, you will get more flow.

We can do this without using a PWM signal as well by sending a 0-5V to the valve. This however requires a driver board and more electronics, so for simplicity sake lets just look at PWM through a static frequency between 300 and 15,000 with the understanding that higher frequency=better.



http://www.coolingmist.net/images/curve.jpg

is that drive board that complicated?

Sounds like a 30 cent part that can be made and sold for 5 bucks.

No problem, since its that easy and cheap I will pay $10 for each one you can make for me.

CM

Sounds like PMRobert can help with firmware changes to allow for a PWM controlled WI output, which would not require the driver board.

PMRobert, thank you for posting. How did you find this--from the thread at the MSExtra site?

Exciting stuff.

I asked a question asshole, It doesnt seem that complicated to me. You obviously thing differently, share.

Mike,

Feel free as well to contact us on Monday to discuss this. I would be glad to help.

David

is it just me, or did I warn you once?

Phillip.

No problem. I will leave this forum. If you find THAT to be bad and find the fact that he calls me an "Ass hole" to be acceptable, I dont want to be here anyway.

I really think you are touchy. I have done nothing but try to help people that needed a solution.

I will withdraw from this thread and not visit anymore. I dont want to be part of this board under these conditions.

I asked a question, a legitimate one. I don't see the big issue with the board, you obviously think differently. You want to help people share the information.

This isnt a place to just push your valve, its a place to help and share information. You are too shortsighted to see that that is good for business.

(Philip, i think we need to change the mod's font color back to hot pink)

like he didn't think we'd notice him deleting all his posts.

Ben, yes, the thread from msextra.com is what led me here. I apparently entered at a bad time (bannination of users, etc.) and hope I didn't inadvertently prompt that. I'm still willing to work with the vendors of the HSV, etc., so as to facilitate adding MS support for their device. Would the admins like me to keep this thread advised as to progress? I'd be happy to do that.

-Mike (longtime Mazda enthusiast, current RX-7 & 8 owner and in need of good WI control for 12A turbo project under development)

fucking cooling mist got tossed :rofl: oh well maybe DIY can be of some real help. That guy never did give us any real info past his first post.

Boy, we are a seriously hostile crowd. :bigtu: