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Old 12-13-2006, 11:42 PM   #1
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Default new to water injection????

ok well im new to the water injection idea and well i am looking at ideas. and i have a few questions. ok i have a base greddy kit with saab intercooler and im boosting 6lbs peak. i was looking at getting a bipes and uping the boost to around 8lbs peak but will water injection allow that without the bipes???? im tryin to make it safely to around that amount of boost untill i can afford an e-manage. but if water injection works great i might stay that route.
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Old 12-14-2006, 12:18 AM   #2
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Water injection is one way of curing ping, the only way to really know if it will do well on your car, is to try it, the DO kit from WOT is a real good deal, and will work very well for what it was intended to do. I am currently running 6lbs of boost on the greddy also, but I am using no intercooler, just WI, and I am running 11 degrees btdc, just to give you an idea. My advice is to get one and try it out, there are a ton of guys here that are running them. If you have any questions, just ask them here in the forum. I am also running the emb also, and am starting to understand it quite well, but recommend to just save the extra money and get an ultimate, or megasquirt. Ask Magna, he was running 10-12psi, and still running 10 degrees btdc, if I remember correctly.
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Old 12-14-2006, 07:17 AM   #3
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I am in a similar position but already have EMB.

I want to run 12psi safely

would the addition of the DO WI kit help me run this safely with my existing set-up?
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Old 12-14-2006, 11:59 AM   #4
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Sure, the WI cools the air charge further from what an intercooler could, an intercooler can only cool until there is no temperature difference (i.e. ambient). The kit will help you get to a safer limit, but it is just one piece of the tuning puzzle. At 12psi, I would say that you could get away with some hefty timing. WOT would be able to help you out the most, the variable controller, is what I would recommend for you tabs. At the higher boost levels, the base kit leaves hp on the table.
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Old 12-14-2006, 12:11 PM   #5
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Yess WI will lower your intake temps, and allow you abit more of a buffer on borderline combustion situations and aids in turbo spool. there are several threads around here about it i did a full writeup of my install awhile back just do a search for it. My kit is basically the same as the Devils own kit with one or to small differences but nothing to worry about. Good luck.
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Old 12-14-2006, 02:35 PM   #6
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so then in theory i could run a water injection setup and run 8lbs boost and bump my timing back up to say 10 degrees and it should be safe??????
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Old 12-14-2006, 02:52 PM   #7
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Absolutely.
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Old 12-14-2006, 06:20 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drftem View Post
so then in theory i could run a water injection setup and run 8lbs boost and bump my timing back up to say 10 degrees and it should be safe??????
Oh yessss.

I'm running 5 psi and WI with timing @ 10*. You can drive the car HARD and then pop the hood and rest your hand on the intake manifold, it's not even warm!!!!
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Old 12-14-2006, 07:25 PM   #9
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Actually - it has been proven that the WI doesnt really cool the charge that much to be worthwhile. What it does do though is cool down the cylinder temps and exhaust gas temps meaning you can safely run a leaner mix.

It does lower intake temps, but only a by a small amount. But then again it depends on positioning of the nozzles.

I have chosed to go individual cylinder for two reasons. 1) Each cylinder gets an even distribution of water 2) there are no bends for the water to go round.

Water is heavier than air - and so when the air turns a corner, the water has a tendency to crash out. If you inject directly into the intake manifold, the water only has to go into the cylinder making it more effective still.

When mine is installed i will post datalogs from the EMB showing AFR's and timing etc.
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Old 12-14-2006, 07:47 PM   #10
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not proven my foot..

If WI doesn't cool the intake charge, then why is my intake manifold 87* after boosting up and down 520 when it was 130*ish before? I'd say that's a significant decrease.
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Old 12-14-2006, 07:50 PM   #11
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So you are saying the water is pulling the heat from Kotomiles intake manifold but not the air inside of it?
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Old 12-14-2006, 07:52 PM   #12
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Must something else making my intake manifold ambient temperature with a Greddy and no intercooler. Gotta be, it's been proven WI doesn't lower intake charge temps. :gay:
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Old 12-14-2006, 08:07 PM   #13
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yeah is seems that mine and kotomiles intake manifolds are defective in regards to heat retention. :gay: there will always be haters
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Old 12-14-2006, 08:16 PM   #14
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Damn defective intake manifolds.
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Old 12-14-2006, 09:18 PM   #15
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My intake temps used to be about 175 degrees, now they are 80-95 degrees, I would say that it is helping with the temps. Just from the latent heat of vaporization of the water, it absorbs surrounding energy, in this case heat, and it also absorbs heat while mixing with the intake charge. Actually, the best place to put the injector would be a little upstream in the intake, more time is more heat removal from the air mixture, by the time it reaches the intake, it is already in a gas form, so the worry of taking corners becomes less. My intake is also very cool to the touch when I have been boosting.
Also, for anyone that is wanting to just put WI on their car and then automatically bump the timing up, don't. Everyone will knock at a different point due to ambient temps, grade of gasoline, condition of the motors. Take the timing bumps 1 degree at a time, drive for a couple of days. This will nesure that you are driving at all different times of the day. This will ensure that no matter what you will not ping. Good luck to anyone wanting to sqeeze in the juice, and we are here to help you if you need it.
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Old 12-14-2006, 09:32 PM   #16
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I could see the argment of the IAT reading being skewed but the cold intake manifold is hard to just disregard.
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Old 12-14-2006, 09:36 PM   #17
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exactly must be a mazda factory defect cold fusion or so hot it's cool.
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Old 12-15-2006, 04:04 PM   #18
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proven by a fellow member on a forum i frequent - proven with temperature probes and saw NO significant decrease in charge temps.

Why would I say it if it wasnt true?
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Old 12-15-2006, 04:14 PM   #19
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Thats fine. We all have a different way of performing tests and interpreting the conclusion. The bottom line is that we all agree that cooling and slowing of the burn is taking place in the combustion chamber when utilizing water injection. Thats where the power,smoothness, greater potential and safety come from.
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Old 12-15-2006, 08:00 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wideopentuning View Post
Thats fine. We all have a different way of performing tests and interpreting the conclusion. The bottom line is that we all agree that cooling and slowing of the burn is taking place in the combustion chamber when utilizing water injection. Thats where the power,smoothness, greater potential and safety come from.
Definately
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