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Old 02-04-2010, 04:35 PM   #1
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Default Where to mount nozzle?

Alright im about to buy a FM stage one water/meth kit. I Have the Begi S4 kit, so I was reading the nozzle has to be after the IAT sensor, and right now my bung for the IAT sensor is at the top right before the throttle plate. So do i mount the nozzle in the existing hole where the IAT was and drill a new hole down further the intercooler pipe and mount the IAT there? Thanks. Mike
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Old 02-04-2010, 04:42 PM   #2
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Point the nozzle directly at the throttle plate. So it would be on the elbow of the BEGi cold side pipe right at the throttle body.

If the IAT sensor is in the way, my favorite place to put it is the cold side end tank of the intercooler. That should limit IAT heat soak that sometimes causes poor hot starting.
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Old 02-04-2010, 04:46 PM   #3
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Mine is in the BEGi elbow, 3" before the throttle body. Points towards the passenger side due to space issues from coolant reroute on other side and aftermarket radiator/fans in front. Still works like a charm.

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Old 02-04-2010, 04:55 PM   #4
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What Ben said.
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Old 02-05-2010, 11:05 AM   #5
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Thanks guys, I will follow those directions.
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Old 02-05-2010, 03:43 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
If the IAT sensor is in the way, my favorite place to put it is the cold side end tank of the intercooler. That should limit IAT heat soak that sometimes causes poor hot starting.
+1 on that. It is an easy mod. You just need a drill, the right bit, and an NPT tap if you are using the GM sensor.
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Old 02-05-2010, 03:57 PM   #7
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+1 on that. It is an easy mod. You just need a drill, the right bit, and an NPT tap if you are using the GM sensor.
Yea see the shitty thing is where it is now because we welded the bung in the intercooler pipe, and its almost to far down to put the nozzle directly at the throttle plate so i might have to order a new intercooler pipe or i might be able to just make it. Or il cut out the old bung weld the hole closed. Il think of something.
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Old 02-05-2010, 04:54 PM   #8
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My setup was originally like that, except it wasn't even a bung, it was a hole Corky drilled and tapped into the intake elbow.

I got a pipe plug in the same size as the IAT hole, and drilled it out to accept the nozzle as well, as milling it down as flat as possible. I then took my unused IAT bung and welded it to the first coldside pipe, in front of the radiator, and put the sensor there.

No more heat soak, and good nozzle placement.
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Old 02-05-2010, 05:45 PM   #9
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Yeah even though it is thin wall pipe (tubing) you might be able to get away with tapping a hole directly in the wall of the pipe. Just put some sealant on it. I did this myself with a BEGI intake tube (high pressure side) and it worked fine.
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Old 02-05-2010, 05:52 PM   #10
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Mine is one of the old cast elbows, a little thicker, but I still put some JBweld on the outside...mainly to keep the adapter from threading in any further as I tightened the nozzle down.
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Old 02-12-2010, 01:29 PM   #11
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Well the kit came in today here are some pictures...
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the only thing im stumped on is the relay. Kit came with no instructions so i went to the snow performance website, they show the colours for the wires for the relay but there are 5 terminals on the relay and i have no idea which wire goes to what terminal on the relay. So if anyone knows that would help me out. Now to find a bottle and where to mount it. I see people use there washer fluid but i would like to keep my washer fluid. Anyone have any picture of where they mounted there bottles and which one they used? Thanks, Mike
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Old 02-12-2010, 02:17 PM   #12
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Usually the relay has a pin out circuit diagram located on it somewhere. If not, maybe goggle the part number and get it from the OEM.

Lots of discussion here on WI tanks and placement. Search and ye shall find.
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Old 02-12-2010, 02:34 PM   #13
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relay pinouts are
30 terminal main power
87 normally off power out
87a normally on power out(this won't be used in this application)
85 terminal is coil power
86 terminal is coil ground(although 85 and 86 can be reveresed)
Also this is about as simple a diagram as I've ever found:
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Old 02-12-2010, 02:35 PM   #14
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That's a common automotive-style SPDT relay. It's upside-down in your picture, but you can see the terminal numbers molded into the bottom cover.

Here's a diagram of what the terminals do, in physical and schematic form:



Refer to the diagram on page 17 of this manual: http://www.snowperformance.net/produ...ion_pdf-44.pdf

Pins 85 and 86 are the coil, which is what triggers the relay to activate when 12v is applied across it. One of these two pins will go to the vacuum switch COM terminal, the other to ground.

I can't say with absolute certainty how Snow's relay harness is built, however you can follow this scheme and make it work:

Connect pin 87 (N/O) to the 20A fuse that goes to Battery +. This is the equivalent of the yellow wire in Snow's manual.

On pin 30 (common) you're going to have two wires. One will go the LED (red in Snow's manual) and the other will go to the pump (green in Snow's manual).

Pin 87a (N/C) will not be used.

Note that this assumes your vacuum switch is set up such that it does not conduct when in vacuum, and that it does conduct when in boost. If you find that the pump comes on when in vacuum, reverse the N/O and N/C terminals on the vacuum switch.
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Old 02-12-2010, 05:32 PM   #15
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Sweet guys, thanks.
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Old 02-12-2010, 07:32 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
That's a common automotive-style SPDT relay. It's upside-down in your picture, but you can see the terminal numbers molded into the bottom cover.

Here's a diagram of what the terminals do, in physical and schematic form:



Refer to the diagram on page 17 of this manual: http://www.snowperformance.net/produ...ion_pdf-44.pdf

Pins 85 and 86 are the coil, which is what triggers the relay to activate when 12v is applied across it. One of these two pins will go to the vacuum switch COM terminal, the other to ground.

I can't say with absolute certainty how Snow's relay harness is built, however you can follow this scheme and make it work:

Connect pin 87 (N/O) to the 20A fuse that goes to Battery +. This is the equivalent of the yellow wire in Snow's manual.

On pin 30 (common) you're going to have two wires. One will go the LED (red in Snow's manual) and the other will go to the pump (green in Snow's manual).

Pin 87a (N/C) will not be used.

Note that this assumes your vacuum switch is set up such that it does not conduct when in vacuum, and that it does conduct when in boost. If you find that the pump comes on when in vacuum, reverse the N/O and N/C terminals on the vacuum switch.
Ok Joe i think i got this right let me know. My tuner said i am using my MS to control the watermeth injection. Heres a picture i made off of the diagram on the website. Does that seem right?

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Also the red wire runs to the back of back of the pump goes into it looks like a switch and another red comes out, i know i use the red one for pin 30 but whats the point of routing it to the back? Is it some type of switch for the pump?

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Old 02-12-2010, 09:26 PM   #17
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Sorry I missed the updates here...but looks like they helped you.

I had hell, thinking I'd wired the relay wrong, but turns out I had a dead on arrival Nason pressure switch.

I have no idea about the red pump wire, but they all do that. Likely needs to power both the motor and some internal switch. You just need power to that one wire.


EDIT: Also, you can try the DevilsOwn forum, they'll help you out even if you didn't get the kit from them. Awesome guys, good advice, just sometimes slow responses.
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Old 02-13-2010, 02:39 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stranges12712 View Post
Ok Joe i think i got this right let me know. My tuner said i am using my MS to control the watermeth injection.
Sorry for my tardiness. Normally I just fire up PaintShop Pro, of which I have been continuously using version 4 since the mid '90s.

Unfortunately, Windows 7 won't run it (this is the first app I've come across this problem with) and while it does work in virtual XP mode, I decided it'd be a good time to upgrade to the current version and learn new things.

Holy freaking ****- when did PSP turn into a Photoshop-wannabe? The whole reason I used to love it was because it was simple! No layers, no vector BS, just a plain ole' bitmap editor... Took me forever just to figure out how to draw a straight line. You'd think it was the icon with a picture of a line on it, right? No, it's the one with a picture of a fountain pen. That's how you draw a straight line in PSP9.


Anyway, here's how you'll wire it, assuming your MS already has a relay drive built in. Note that this is NOT the correct wiring if you intend to use the MS to do PWM control, only for simple on/off control.

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Old 02-13-2010, 03:46 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
Sorry for my tardiness. Normally I just fire up PaintShop Pro, of which I have been continuously using version 4 since the mid '90s.

Unfortunately, Windows 7 won't run it (this is the first app I've come across this problem with) and while it does work in virtual XP mode, I decided it'd be a good time to upgrade to the current version and learn new things.

Holy freaking ****- when did PSP turn into a Photoshop-wannabe? The whole reason I used to love it was because it was simple! No layers, no vector BS, just a plain ole' bitmap editor... Took me forever just to figure out how to draw a straight line. You'd think it was the icon with a picture of a line on it, right? No, it's the one with a picture of a fountain pen. That's how you draw a straight line in PSP9.


Anyway, here's how you'll wire it, assuming your MS already has a relay drive built in. Note that this is NOT the correct wiring if you intend to use the MS to do PWM control, only for simple on/off control.

Uhh relay drive? Whats that? Is it a pin output? And its gona be controled by how much boost im running at times? So i have no idea how its going to work i emailed my tuner havent heard back from him yet though...its the long weekend no ones working lol. To be honest i hate wiring, confuses the **** out of me.
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Old 02-13-2010, 10:32 PM   #20
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Uhh relay drive? Whats that? Is it a pin output?
Ok, I guess I need to take a step back here.

There are two fundamental ways to do WI with the MS.

Way #1 involves using a high-speed solenoid (such as the one sold by AquaMist) which is pulsewidth modulated by the MS just like a fuel injector. When the MS wants to inject, it does two things- turn on the pump, and start driving the solenoid. Thus, you have two outputs of the MS to deal with, a relay driver to power the pump, and a PWM driver to power the solenoid. Here's the MS documentation on this mode: MSnS-Extra Hardware Manual


Way #2 is far cheaper, and sounds like what you're shooting for based on the list of hardware you've given. It consists of half of the circuit from the above example- the relay driver.

This is nothing more than a transistor wired to a pin of the CPU on one side, and a terminal of the DB37 connector on the other. Since the CPU itself is not capable of sinking enough power to drive a relay, we use the transistor to do that job. All you do is set that output to come on above a certain MAP, and that's it. There's no control over the quantity of water being injected, it's just on or off like the basic Snow circuit we've shown above.

Here's the documentation on general purpose relay driver outputs: MSnS-Extra Hardware Manual
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