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Old 05-21-2009, 07:39 PM   #1
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Default pnp NA to pnp Turbo ???

Hi All,

I've been running pnp on my car for about 3 months now and have it running almost like stock.

The AFM is about the only mod at the moment.

After setting the initial timing, the only thing I have really played with is the fuel map.

My turbo is going on this weekend.

Where do I start ?????

I have bigger injectors, but might not fit them until later.

I also have an EBC, but will probably also leave that until later and just use the mechanical actuator for now.

Any tips or pointers would be greatly appreciated,

Thanks,

Pat (UK).
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Old 05-21-2009, 09:48 PM   #2
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Injectors are about a 10 minute job. Id put them in and start tuning from there

EBC you can wait

Start with taking off the old exhaust manifold i guess. Thats where i started
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Old 05-22-2009, 03:10 AM   #3
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Sorry, I meant with setting the pnp,the install I can handle (I think).

Will get the injectors changed at the same time - thanks.

Pat...
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Old 05-22-2009, 10:38 AM   #4
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Follow this link:

MegaSquirtPNP by DIYAutoTune.com

Then scroll down to "Boost (tuning for it)." We've got most of the questions covered there.
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Old 05-25-2009, 05:51 PM   #5
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Thanks.

I've read and taken in a lot of the manual, but am still really struggling with this.

The more I read the more complex it gets and it's all going over my head without someone pointing me in the right direction.

I've spent a fortune on bits and just want to get the car running smoothly and it's really beginning to p me off at the moment.

Injectors (550's) and ebc fitted as well as a hybrid T25 with FM intercooler and other associated parts.

All I have done in Megatune since fitting the turbo and other bits is adjusted the required fuel in constants to suit my engine size and injectors and an AFR of 12.7.

I then went into boost controller parameters and changed the closed loop to 20, the typical ambient pressure to 98 kPa (this is what the Megatune gauge showed before I started the engine).

I then went into the boost kpa target tables and changed them all to 85 as the actuator is really weak on my turbo.

My AFR's are now all over the place ranging from 10.4 to 19.9.

The car runs like a bag of poo and kangaroos really bad between 3 and 4k and really struggles above 4k to do anything.

I am also getting turbo chatter when releasing the throttle, but managed a few atishoo's from the dump valve when the car was pushed in 1st gear.

I also fitted a knocksense and turned the screw 15-20% as recommended from the light being on at idle - the light comes on an awful lot, but the engine sounds just the same with no audible "concerns".

Help.

Thanks,

Pat...
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Old 05-25-2009, 07:44 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avoneer View Post
I then went into boost controller parameters and changed the closed loop to 20, the typical ambient pressure to 98 kPa (this is what the Megatune gauge showed before I started the engine).

I then went into the boost kpa target tables and changed them all to 85 as the actuator is really weak on my turbo.
A suggestion- forget the boost controller for the moment. Hook up the wastegate can directly and get the lower portion of the VE table whipped into shape first. No sense worrying about multiple problems at the same time.


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My AFR's are now all over the place ranging from 10.4 to 19.9.
Sounds about right for a first-time job, actually. Give EGO some broad authority here. 2% steps, 25 ignition cycles per step, 20% range. Do a quick drive and log (just a few minutes at relatively low throttle) and run the data through MLV. Dump the new VE table in and repeat. The first time on a new table, I am usually pulling over to the side of the road every few minutes to do a new table. After a few cycles of this, reduce EGO to 1% steps and slow it down to 30 or 40 cycles, and repeat.



Quote:
a bag of poo and kangaroos


This is, hands-down, the funniest thing I have heard in a long time. How is it that with all of my British friends and co-workers (one of whom is from Leeds) I've never heard this before? (And, how poorly does a bag of poo and kangaroos run?)


Quote:
I am also getting turbo chatter when releasing the throttle, but managed a few atishoo's from the dump valve when the car was pushed in 1st gear.
What valve are you using? I find a lot of them to be way too tightly sprung. If it is one that can be disassembled, you may two multiple concentric springs inside. Removing the smaller of these will loosen it up a low.


Quote:
I also fitted a knocksense and turned the screw 15-20% as recommended from the light being on at idle - the light comes on an awful lot, but the engine sounds just the same with no audible "concerns".
The KnockSenseMS is highly prone to false triggering. I had to turn mine down quite a lot to make it stop. I still get an occasional blink above 5,000 RPM, but it's livable.
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Old 05-25-2009, 08:08 PM   #7
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Hi Joe,

Thanks for the time to reply - will give all that a go in the morning and see what happens.

Bag of poo and kangaroo are separate comments lol (and I'm from Leeds).

Pat ;-)
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Old 05-25-2009, 08:32 PM   #8
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Quote:
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Sounds about right for a first-time job, actually. Give EGO some broad authority here. 2% steps, 25 ignition cycles per step, 20% range.
In the EGO control panel, does this look right?

EGO sensor type: Wide Band
EGO switch point: 2.352
Ignition events or msec per step: 25
Controller step size: 2
Controller authority: 20
Active above coolant temp: 18
Active above RPM: 1500
EGO correction step counter: Ign pulses

Thanks,
Pat.
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Old 05-26-2009, 04:55 AM   #9
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Shall I remove the BOV for now as well as I have a blanking plug I can use and just leave the overboost on something sensible like 150?

Thanks.

Pat.
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Old 05-26-2009, 09:54 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avoneer View Post
Bag of poo and kangaroo are separate comments lol
I see. "It runs like a bag of poo, and it kangaroos." I usually refer to that behavior as "porpoising". Nevertheless, I am going to start using the term
"poo and kangaroos" in everyday conversation.


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In the EGO control panel, does this look right?
The only thing I'd change is to either raise the temperature to around 70, or make sure you instruct MLV to ignore all data below 70 (the latter would be better). Reason is that we don't want MLV correcting the tables during warmup and ASE. Get the VE tables tuned for normal operation, then tune warmup and ASE separately.



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Shall I remove the BOV for now as well as I have a blanking plug I can use and just leave the overboost on something sensible like 150?
No, leave the BOV in place. It's not going to hurt your tuning, I'm just offering advice on how to loosen it up and make it vent more easily.
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Old 05-26-2009, 11:00 AM   #11
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Poos and kangaroos - now that's funny - think you've started something.

Right, I've removed the EBC and did some VE tuning as you suggested above - about 8 x 5 minute logs taking it easy and not pushing the car, analysing each time.

I then altered the EGO as suggested and did the same again.

The car is running loads better and is "almost" driveable, faster than stock, but no where near what I was hoping for - but I realise that will come in time and with some more understanding.

The AFR's look a lot better as well - 10 to 16.

There is now only "poos and kangaroos" between 3200 and 4000 revs in all gears, and 3rd and 4th don't seem to want to go higher than 4000.

Also a small issue when letting go of the throttle after WOT and the car almost stalling.

I've uploaded my last log and MSQ if anyone gets a minute:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/patrick...0905261341.xls

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/patrick...alysed%208.msq

I'll have a look at the BOV later - makes sense as if the valve isn't opening, it will be creating back pressure and hence the turbo flutter - see, I'm learning!

What should I be looking at next?

Thanks in advance,

Pat...
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Old 05-26-2009, 03:48 PM   #12
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Arrrrr - bad links.

Try these:

Log

MSQ (You'll need to right click and save for this one)

Thanks,

Pat...
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Old 05-26-2009, 04:41 PM   #13
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Quote:
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Also a small issue when letting go of the throttle after WOT and the car almost stalling.
Set the minimum idle dc parameter to a higher value. You're at 19 currently. You want this number to be about 1 point lower than the lowest value that produces a normal warm idle in your logs. I use 22 on my car. From your logs, it looks like your normal warm idle is 24, so I'd try 23.

When you first drop back to idle from a higher RPM, the MS starts at the minimum value and then works its way up. All this time, your engine is struggling to run. By raising the minimum value, it starts at a higher number and thus has an easier time of finding stability.

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Old 05-26-2009, 08:05 PM   #14
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Cheers Joe,

That's sorted out the idle dropping and thanks for explaining "why" in english - even I got it!

Just been pointed in the direction of the AFR target table and mine were way off.

Have amended them to read something sensible and will be out later getting some more logs.

I've gone for approx:

16 - 41 kpa - 14.7
60 - 100 kpa - 13.5
100 kpa and above - 11.8

It's a steep learning curve!

Pat...
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Old 05-27-2009, 07:26 PM   #15
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Right, running a bit better after 3 hours of small logs.

Still kangarooing though around 4k.

Any thoughts or suggestions anyone?

MSQ - Right click and save as....

Log

Thanks,

Pat...
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Old 05-28-2009, 08:21 PM   #16
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Right, I found an MSQ on my CD that seemed a lot better than mine.

Tried and tested and the car is running a lot better (and quicker) so I'm getting there slowly.

Latest Log

Latest MSQ - right click and save

Pat...
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