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Old 06-24-2008, 12:01 PM   #1
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Default BEGI Carb Question

I talked with Stephanie from BEGI yesterday about a Carb legal turbo for my 94, i am thinking of going with the s3 with full Carb legal (Bandaids) and an add on MSPNP for when i get done with smog testing and have a 2 year period of freedom.

The question i had is has anyone tested a BEGI turbo through the state ref and if so did they ever say anything about not having multiple supplementary fuel injectors before the throttle body. Stephanie said she had never heard of anyone having a problem and i am just trying to confirm that no one has ever had a problem with this.

Stephanie did say they could weld a second bung on the inlet tube and i could hook up dummy injectors for the testing, but i am pretty sure that if a state ref caught you with dummy injectors they would probably be more T.O. than if they were missing and trying to discuss the fact that that turbo set up isn't made in any fashion.

Also one last question would there be a feasible, i.e. one day instillation of 2 injectors that worked into the air tube prior to the throttle body as per the E.O. it states. "The supplementary fuel injectors are placed in an air tube just prior to the throttle body and are controlled by a boost pressure actuated electronic circuit."

Thanks for all the help, yes i am a noob, Kevin
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Old 06-24-2008, 12:33 PM   #2
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The exact text of the EO, for those not in the loop:
Garrett turbocharger, 10 psi. maximum boost, high flow fuel pump, intercooler (optional), two supplementary fuel injectors, fuel regulator designed to raise the fuel pressure as a function of boost pressure, open element air cleaner, ignition timing retard device, cast iron exhaust manifold, and exhaust connecting pipe. The supplementary fuel injectors are placed in an air tube just prior to the throttle body and are controlled by a boost pressure actuated electronic circuit.
So first off, you need a Bipes ACU (or similar) if you really want to conform to the letter of the law.

As to the injectors, I can think of a couple of options.

1- A non-PNP megasquirt could be easily configured to run as a supplementary injector driver only. In that role, it meets the technical description in 349-1. Just think of it: the first CARB-legal Megasquirt! You could be a hero.

2- An EMU could also be a supplementary injector driver, while at the same time being an ignition retard device.

3- P-P-Powercard Pro.
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Old 06-24-2008, 12:39 PM   #3
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Default Mspnp

When i purchase i am most likely going to get both Bipes and MSPNP one for the legal set up, and one because it is cheaper to buy MSPNP at the time of the turbo rather than after it.

And thank you for the suggestions on possible supplementary fuel injectors controllers.
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Old 06-24-2008, 01:00 PM   #4
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I don’t like to dispense advice on this subject because 1) I’d hate for someone to take my advice and have it create (legal) problems and 2) I’ve never smog-tested my miata so I’m less than reliable as a source of information.

BUT, my neighbor and good friend is a smog **** and the general manager (for 18 years) at a “test only” dyno station specializing in gross polluters. I ask him smog-related questions constantly. He’s read the Bell E.O. and he insists that the supplemental injectors and fuel regulator are not needed. He’s more concerned with what’s installed rather than what’s missing. The ignition retard device can be any black box, such as an MS, and even that doesn’t need to be present. Intercooler doesn’t matter, MAT sensor doesn’t matter (that’s for ignition retard). This is information coming from one source so that’s my disclaimer. Individual results may vary.

Here’s where I’m fucked: he said he’ll likely want to activate the EGR in a test, which of course would require the OE ECU. This would require a parallel install which = the ***. He also said that 98% of inspections won’t require EGR activation so it’s not a big threat, really.
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Old 06-25-2008, 03:20 AM   #5
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"Go away, batin"

Idiocracy is one of the most underrated movies made. I think it's ranks top 10 for me.
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Old 06-26-2008, 02:41 PM   #6
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Default purchased s3

I just purchased an s3
GT2650
Intercooler #2
2 gauge Pod
Bipes
FMU
Megasquirt PNP
Walbro 190lph HP
Fit Kit for Fuel pump
EGT Bung and Plug

Other Kit Modifications
2nd bung on inlet tube to throttle body
2 Air inlet tubes one with MAF delete and one without

So the Thought Process, I want to have a Carb legal set up and and the beginnings of a Megasquirt setup, i will be looking in the next couple months for 550cc RX7 injectors or RC if i can find them cheap enough, and still trying to decide on which WBO2 either LC-1 or AEM, i like the ease of the AEM but it seems like the LC-1 gives you a lot more connection possibilities.

I still have issues with not being totally carb legal i.e. don't have two injectors before the throttle body, but it will be about a year before I might hit that hurdle and when i do i will have to figure it out.

Last edited by tiber55; 06-26-2008 at 04:20 PM.
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Old 06-26-2008, 04:09 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiber55 View Post

Heres where it gets interested

2nd bung on inlet tube to throttle body

Maf delete and no delete air intake pipes


Riiiight. Your post lacks clearity so don't get pissy if my response does too. 2nd bung? For what? I don't know why you'd need two but if you're worried about the MAT sensor, it's probably not an issue; it's feedback for the ignition retard . Not sure what the hell your second thing says but you can't delete your MAF and still be compliant.



Quote:
Originally Posted by tiber55 View Post
So the Thought Process, I want to have a Carb legal set up and and the beginnings of a Megasquirt setup, i will be looking in the next couple months for 550cc RX7 injectors or RC if i can find them cheap enough, and still trying to decide on which WBO2 either LC-1 or AEM, i like the ease of the AEM but it seems like the LC-1 gives you a lot more connection possibilities.


Choosing a WB is another subject... but for tests, alls you gotta do is hook up the analog out to the OE ECU and you can delete your OE O2 sensor. It'd be better if it's in a spot that's easily viewable. Injectors must be the original units spec'd for your engine.



Quote:
Originally Posted by tiber55 View Post
I still have issues with not being totally carb legal i.e. don't have two injectors before the throttle body, but it will be about a year before I might hit that hurdle and when i do i will have to figure it out.


Yeah, you will have to figure it out. And the sooner, the better. What with all the ref tickets being handed out and all; it'll benefit you to have your **** as close to legal as possible whenever you're on the road, especially when you're driving on highways. But I can say with a fair level of confidnece that the auxillary injectors are not manditory. A clean system without a bunch of hacked up **** everywhere is probably the best place to start.

This information is for conversational purposes only not to be considered "reliable"
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Old 06-26-2008, 04:22 PM   #8
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The point is to have two complete set ups one that is as carb legal as possible and one that is not. And have them as interchangeable as possible.

The 2nd Bung on the throttle body inlet tube is in case I have to find a way to put the two auxiliary injectors in place.

In the end i hope you are right and the auxiliary fuel injectors are not mandatory, but in case i want to be as prepared as possible to put them in.
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Old 07-19-2008, 02:53 AM   #9
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I had to smog my 94 (California) a few months ago. I ended up just going back to stock. I have my DIY kit set up so this is not that big of a job. I swapped the AEM computer (plug and play) for the stock unit, replaced the RX7 injectors with the stock ones, put on the stock exhaust manifold and intake and left the intercooler in place. I have my sensors wired sort of in parallel so that I just plugged in the MAF and EGR connectors. The AEM wideband can be switched to narrowband mode so that the stock ecu is happy. I passed with no problem.

Now, I have 2 years to figure out something easier. I would like to leave the turbo on, weld a fitting to the downpipe to connect to the EGR pipe, weld a new intake pipe to accept the MAF (just for smog test time). I can put on my low pressure wastegate actuator and lengthen the rod so that boost stays very low. I think the car will then run OK on the stock ecu and injectors without any other fuel management. The car would then be basically in stock form except for the turbo with all sensors and pollution control devices functioning. I'm not sure if it would pass the visual, but maybe worth a shot if there is some sort of EO sticker under the hood. I still have my old Jackson Racing EO sticker in place from my supercharger days.

Barry
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