few qustions...sorry
07-29-2006, 01:47 PM
#1
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few qustions...sorry
Okay I know, I know somewhat newb questions but.... There are tons of options but I may have found a good deal on some of them..
BOV's
-stock WRX bov - buddy on another forum for ~ $10
or
-Bosch bov for 993 porsche - http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/cata...R23-0280142108 ~ $40
Engine management/Fuel stuff
I know as I increase boost I am going to need to run larger injectors and get some engine management. but I dont wanna get bipes and then upgrade it later, I want to get what will work later and now. But I dont think that the emanage is necessary. Now I dont know that much about the SAFCII, but one of my friends said that I could possibly use this for my A/F needs. BUt will that allow me to control fuel and timing, run larger injectors, and have the ability to pull timing so you can run a higher base timing.
e-manage = expensive safcII - I can get used from a friend for cheaper
BOV's
-stock WRX bov - buddy on another forum for ~ $10
or
-Bosch bov for 993 porsche - http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/cata...R23-0280142108 ~ $40
Engine management/Fuel stuff
I know as I increase boost I am going to need to run larger injectors and get some engine management. but I dont wanna get bipes and then upgrade it later, I want to get what will work later and now. But I dont think that the emanage is necessary. Now I dont know that much about the SAFCII, but one of my friends said that I could possibly use this for my A/F needs. BUt will that allow me to control fuel and timing, run larger injectors, and have the ability to pull timing so you can run a higher base timing.
e-manage = expensive safcII - I can get used from a friend for cheaper
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07-29-2006, 02:46 PM
#2
uh safc only does fuel i believe i don't know how big of an injector you can run with it i was inspired by andy so i will try the rx-7 afm to run some 300's and keep my afpr, it should help. the bipes or js are your only real options have no experience wiht either becouse my WI does such a good job. i hope this helps. as for the bov i have no idea
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07-30-2006, 12:21 AM
#4
Both BOVs should work. I think that quite a few of us have used the bosch one from the porsche so it's been a bit more "tested" so to speak. With either, you will either need to recirculate or put a one way check valve so it does not leak at idle and cause idle issues. I believe that there is a thread in the archives about adding a one way check valve from Lowes/HD to the Bosche to run VTA.
As for the engine management stuff, there are two separate issues to address. One is timing control and the other is fuel control. Since the SAFC-II only does fueling control (I think it may have a knock sensor feature, but does not control timing at least from what the APEXi website says, if it does then I apologize as I am not familiar with this piece) this will not work as a complete solution for higher boost.
For timing you have a few options: (there is an older JR unit that isn't common anymore so I won't mention that one)
1) 6-ish psi, you can retard your base timing to 6 and use the highest octane gas you have. Depending upon location/environment (aka only 91 octane, hot as crap, etc...), this may not be enough.
2) bipes (which is only a timing control unit so you'll need other stuff for fuel control)
3) e-manage (which does timing and fuel)
4) aftermarket ecu (aka link/haltech/etc....which does timing, fuel, and usually other stuff too)
For fueling again, several options: (all depends upon final desired power levels and of course depending upon which route, you'll probably get at least 1.8 injectors if not bigger)
1) AFPR/higher pressure fuel pump (this is what Begi uses for their base kit, can't fine tune as well as other options)
2) SAFC II (which only does fueling and not timing)
3) emanage
4) aftermarket ECU
5) RX-7 AFM/bigger injectors (has been reportedly done by one person, but you'd probably still need something for timing control)
While the prices of things can vary greatly (i.e. new/used/friend who has an extra for free), as a sweeping generalization, I'd leave you with two example setups:
If you plan to stay at 8psi or below, the cheapest route (note: I didn't say best) would probably be to get a higher pressure FP (assuming your stock FP is not up to snuff ~$90), change the disc in your vortech (~$40), and get a used bipes (~$150) = ~$280 Biggest con is that you'd have to setup pretty rich for safety and don't have much fine control. Going above 8psi would mean bigger injectors, keep the HP FP/vortech, and add some better fueling control such as SAFC II, emanage, aftermarket ECU.
If you plan on going for bigger boost (aka 8+psi) in the long run, you will still need a bigger FP, bigger injectors, and can either get rid of or keep your current vortech (depending upon what size injectors you run). At this point, you could still run a AFPR + bigger FP setup but you start tempting fate unless you like running pig rich all the time. Usually, this is the point that people go with something more robust like emanage/aftermarket ECU.
Again, if I was wrong about the SAFC-II being able to control timing as well then, I say go for it and be a pioneer to tune up yet another option for GReddy folk and be different in the process!
FWIW, I started with the base GReddy kit and went to 10psi with a used bipes $150, used BEGI AFPR $100, sold my Vortech on ebay for $90, 1.8 injectors or $40, and traded my stock exhaust for a used Pierburg. Like a lot of us, I didn't have a ton of cash to blow on electronics. BUT, to make a long story short, I've since switched to an emanage setup and #1 Wished I went emanage from the beginning since the difference between the two were night and day in my experience. YMMV. #2 Am now wishing for a complete aftermarket ECU setup for even more control/safety....it never ends....
As for the engine management stuff, there are two separate issues to address. One is timing control and the other is fuel control. Since the SAFC-II only does fueling control (I think it may have a knock sensor feature, but does not control timing at least from what the APEXi website says, if it does then I apologize as I am not familiar with this piece) this will not work as a complete solution for higher boost.
For timing you have a few options: (there is an older JR unit that isn't common anymore so I won't mention that one)
1) 6-ish psi, you can retard your base timing to 6 and use the highest octane gas you have. Depending upon location/environment (aka only 91 octane, hot as crap, etc...), this may not be enough.
2) bipes (which is only a timing control unit so you'll need other stuff for fuel control)
3) e-manage (which does timing and fuel)
4) aftermarket ecu (aka link/haltech/etc....which does timing, fuel, and usually other stuff too)
For fueling again, several options: (all depends upon final desired power levels and of course depending upon which route, you'll probably get at least 1.8 injectors if not bigger)
1) AFPR/higher pressure fuel pump (this is what Begi uses for their base kit, can't fine tune as well as other options)
2) SAFC II (which only does fueling and not timing)
3) emanage
4) aftermarket ECU
5) RX-7 AFM/bigger injectors (has been reportedly done by one person, but you'd probably still need something for timing control)
While the prices of things can vary greatly (i.e. new/used/friend who has an extra for free), as a sweeping generalization, I'd leave you with two example setups:
If you plan to stay at 8psi or below, the cheapest route (note: I didn't say best) would probably be to get a higher pressure FP (assuming your stock FP is not up to snuff ~$90), change the disc in your vortech (~$40), and get a used bipes (~$150) = ~$280 Biggest con is that you'd have to setup pretty rich for safety and don't have much fine control. Going above 8psi would mean bigger injectors, keep the HP FP/vortech, and add some better fueling control such as SAFC II, emanage, aftermarket ECU.
If you plan on going for bigger boost (aka 8+psi) in the long run, you will still need a bigger FP, bigger injectors, and can either get rid of or keep your current vortech (depending upon what size injectors you run). At this point, you could still run a AFPR + bigger FP setup but you start tempting fate unless you like running pig rich all the time. Usually, this is the point that people go with something more robust like emanage/aftermarket ECU.
Again, if I was wrong about the SAFC-II being able to control timing as well then, I say go for it and be a pioneer to tune up yet another option for GReddy folk and be different in the process!
FWIW, I started with the base GReddy kit and went to 10psi with a used bipes $150, used BEGI AFPR $100, sold my Vortech on ebay for $90, 1.8 injectors or $40, and traded my stock exhaust for a used Pierburg. Like a lot of us, I didn't have a ton of cash to blow on electronics. BUT, to make a long story short, I've since switched to an emanage setup and #1 Wished I went emanage from the beginning since the difference between the two were night and day in my experience. YMMV. #2 Am now wishing for a complete aftermarket ECU setup for even more control/safety....it never ends....
Last edited by brgracer; 07-30-2006 at 12:51 AM.
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07-30-2006, 12:35 AM
#5
RX-7 with bigger injectors had been done by 2 people before 6 pm today now as far as i know it is 3. so far it works pretty well. not bad for less than 100 dollars invested. some people do have issues in tunning it i gues every experience will vary. the fpr and some 1.8's, with a hp 190 or pieburg should get you to 8-9 psi range provided you can keep the intake charge temps down if you keep them low enough the timming does not have to be modified so that is one less thing to worry about. i hope this helps
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07-30-2006, 12:36 AM
#6
Originally Posted by magnamx-5
RX-7 with bigger injectors had been done by 2 people before 6 pm today now as far as i know it is 3. so far it works pretty well. not bad for less than 100 dollars invested. some people do have issues in tunning it i gues every experience will vary. the fpr and some 1.8's, with a hp 190 or pieburg should get you to 8-9 psi range provided you can keep the intake charge temps down if you keep them low enough the timming does not have to be modified so that is one less thing to worry about. i hope this helps
Okay, and to correct my last post, I guess the cheapest option is the RX-7 AFM + bigger injectors...
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