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Old 09-18-2008, 12:00 PM   #1
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Default Finally Going to Order a Turbo

So I decided that I am going to be ordering a Begi-s kit from begi within the next couple of weeks. Ive been lurking around here for a little while reading and trying to learn as much as i can and i decided that im tired of being na.

Im planning on ordering it with...

~gt2860
~Im getting it ceramic coated/ ordering a turbo blanket.
~SS Divorced Downpipe
~SS Oil and water Lines
~Begis new SS Tubular manifold like in the s5 which will hopefully be released in the next few weeks.
~im not ordering an intercooler right away so im leaving the charge pipes mild steel.
~Im using the fuel management that comes with the kit.

As far as band-aids go im ordering...

~lc1 wbo2
~Bipes*

*Quick question about bipes. Do I need to set my timing to base or does this automatically adjust to my timing. Im sure that no one has messed with the timing on my car as it has 70k on it.

I was wondering what you guys thought about this set-up and if you had an advice. Im leaving it the way it is for now and once it get it running properly, ill slowly be adding Intercooler, injectors, fuel pump, ms, torsen.. My one problem thus far is the exhaust. Ill be leaving it stock for now and i know ill lose a ton of performance. that is first up after i put on the kit. i cant afford to do it all at once so ill be doing it in steps. let me know if you have an suggestions so far. ill be ordering the kit withing the next 3-4 weeks.

~Dave
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Old 09-18-2008, 12:18 PM   #2
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What you set your base timing to will be determined by the gas you have and boost you're going to run. Without an IC, 6-7psi w/an efficient turbo like the 2860 is possible... but not unless you've got 93octane. I found on my '93 with a full bandaid setup, that 14* base with Bipes pulling total of 7* worked out fine. I was IC'd and ran up to 14psi.

Your next move should be to put your location in your profile.

Additionally, a Bipes and the 2025 AFPR that comes with the kit puts you more than halfway to an MSPnP. Don't waste your money buying bandaids dude. Plus to wire in the Bipes you've got to hack your factory ECU harness all to ****... putting it back together to run something else in the future just plain sucks. You also don't need a turbo blanket if you're going to ceramic coat the manifold (MS almost paid for).

I applaud the idea of buying things in steps. The general consensus of this board has always been to do your engine management first... turbo second. You've got a budget that will allow you to do this. You don't say anything about your power goals... but a GT2860 is way overkill for a stock 1.6. A GT2554r is the perfect match. It'll do 240-250whp, spool like a raped banshee, and save you about $350 (MS paid for). If there's a reason you're stuck on the 2860, you'd better be planning for a future BUILT 1.8 upgrade when you blow your 1.6, otherwise it's a waste of money.

My STRONG ADVICE is to skip the AFPR/BIPES/BLANKET/2860, spend that money on MS and injectors instead and do it CORRECTLY from the very beginning. You should be able to squeeze a safe 150-160whp with that setup non-intercooled at around 7psi (the stock exhaust will limit you greatly). Throw the IC on there, and run 10psi for about 200whp. Then throw on a 3" Enthuza and crank it to 14psi for about 240whp until you blow your motor. In a couple years when that happens, swap to a built 1.8 and upgrade to the GT2860.
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Old 09-18-2008, 12:28 PM   #3
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Why the 2860? Do you do a lot of track or 1/4 mile strip?

I agree with Sam that you should go with a 2554 or even the 2560(my favorite turbo).
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Old 09-18-2008, 12:29 PM   #4
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Buy my Manifold and SS divorced dp from me and save yourself some money. Its in the for sale section. 750 shipped!!
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Old 09-19-2008, 01:42 AM   #5
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my thought process behind the 2860 was to have a bigger turbo so i have more upgrading ability. im not looking for crazy power. i dont really want something that is going to greatly shorten my engines life. id just like a quick little car that will be a daily driver that i can go drive around with my friends and keep up.
my biggest fear with the ms is the complexity of it. i know nothing about megasquirt. do i also need a laptop for that? would i be better off buying the mspnp from begi or should i have brainiack build me one?
Is it still a good idea to get a wbo2 along with the ms? so if i order the ms from begi would be ordering the begi kit with ms and no fuel management?
Also is it a waste of money for me to get the seperated gases dp? or should i just get the regular one? can i get the regular one in stainless? on the kits webpage it gives me the option that says "material". is that for the charge pipe or is that everything in stainless? also, it has the coolant lines in stainless for $150. is it the coolant or oil line that they recommend you get in stainless as the rubber has a short life?


this is what i have so far. keep in mind that i wanted tot get the new begi manifold for the s kit which should be coming out soon. its tubular. steph sais the base kit will be bumped up to about $2100. is this stupid for me to buy or should i just go for the log manifold? let me know if any of the stainless stuff is redundant or pointless. id like cheap but reliable.

heres what i have so far.........

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Old 09-19-2008, 01:49 AM   #6
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With the gt2860 you aren't gonna be able to keep up with your friends but you will be able to catch up with them once the thing spools.

Stick with the 2554 or 2560 IMO. I think with a 1.6 I'd lean toward the 54.

As far as the downpipe goes I'd say get a bellmouthed or separated gas version if you can afford em. the base DP is certainly restrictive.

The MSPNP is still a great deal as far as EMS's go. If you don't think you can build your own I think you should go with that. (Is Brain building again?)

WBO2 is required to tune an MS.

I'd consider braided SS lines for oil feed but I wouldn't spend the extra coin for the coolant lines.
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Old 09-19-2008, 02:05 AM   #7
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Maybe Stephanie can chime in here:

The BEGi S kit lists for $1905.
That includes the BEGi RR-AFPR/FMU. That item separately goes for $199.
If I want to opt for the MSPNP option instead it adds $700. Now if I wanted to buy the MSPNP seperately it would cost me $740 through BEGi. So since the RR-AFPR is not needed with the MSPNP shouldn't there be a credit in an amount approaching the $199 that the AFPR costs? Seems to me that opting for the MSPNP with the turbo kit should be around a $541 additional charge. Or is BEGi still including the AFPR for those running smaller injectors? I'd like to see the option to actually delete it on the order form for the additional savings.

And yes, I am in the market for another turbo kit from Bell. Not just busting ***** here.
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Old 09-19-2008, 02:09 AM   #8
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coming from a gt2860rs owner who's switching to a 2560 I'd say get the 2560 or 54.
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Old 09-20-2008, 02:02 AM   #9
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is the 2560 a better choice over the 2554? do they spool similarly?
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Old 09-20-2008, 08:29 AM   #10
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The 54 will spool quicker than the 60. It may be a better choice for the 1.6 depending on what you do with the car. The 54 will create more heat at the same boost levels so if you do a lot of track time the 60 would be a better choice. Common thoughts on these 2 turbos are the 2554 will get you to 250hp if you do everything right, the 2560 will get you to 300. I have both on my 94's. If I wasn't so lazy(and my girlfriend didn't give me **** for doing too much Miata stuff) I'd swap out the 54 for a 60. Again I do have 1.8's though. Neither of my cars have that "turbo feel". There is no wait for it, wait for it....

There is a thread discussing the 2554 vs. 2560. Search for that and see what people think.
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Old 09-21-2008, 01:23 AM   #11
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not trying to gank this thread but.........

im in a very similiar situation. looking at a begi kit, ive got a few differences from flawxy.

i got a 1.8 97
180k on the body
80k on engine
2.5" ss enthuza on the way
looking for enthuza to make me a 2.5" test
torsen sittin in the garage, installing soon
clutch and flywheel within the next 2 weeks(act hd and 8.5lb fidanza?)

lookin at:

BEGI-S Turbo System 1994-1997
- Color : Black Powdercoating
- Material : Mild Steel
- Wideband O2 Bung : Wideband O2 Bung +$20.00
- Cruise Control : no
- Turbo Size : GT2560 +$200.00
- Intercooler Size : none
- Fueling Option : MegaSquirt PNP +$700.00
- Add Bypass Valve : none
- Heat Shield : add +$89.00
- Add Oil Pan Drill and Tap : no
- Add Stainless Braid Coolant line : yes +$150.00
- Add Separated Gases Downpipe : No
$3,064.00 $3,064.00
Sub-Total: $3,064.00
Total: $3,064.00

decided to just get a mspnp from begi and paul has a point on the %541 price but got think that all the competitors will have it at 700 also.

going for 550cc injectors
walbro 255(or should i get the 190? friend has 255 for cheaper)
maybe an ebay IC or BEGi's (if begis is cake compared to a diy ebay ill do it)
thats all i can think of atm..... what am i missing?

ive got a decent suspesion setup, looking at from ohlins over some monoflexes considering this will be a DD also. im wanting the same a flawxy, have a fast lil car and.... be faster than my friends haha.

i also autocross everytime i can, looking into some HPDE's for some track time. guna get some 15x9 6uls and 275/35/15 a6s to run in sm2 (oh boi ill still lose lol)

like i said, not stealing the thread but im sure we can learn off each others situations :-D
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Old 09-23-2008, 01:06 AM   #12
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maybe youd be better off with the 2860 cuz you have the 1.8? and the o2 bung, does that come already on the seperated gases dp already or it always an add on? ill have to add that if its not included.
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Old 09-23-2008, 12:10 PM   #13
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yeah i thought about the 2860 but im looking for better response since ill mostly be doing autox. looks like the 02 bung comes with the seperated gases dp, i was also wondering about the benfits of it.

thinking about going all out and getting a s4 kit, morely for the SS manifold. would the begi IC have more effecient flow vs an ebay IC so u wouldnt lose as much psi? is it worth the extra money?

i guess its all relative to ur goals
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Old 09-23-2008, 12:33 PM   #14
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There is no need for an upgraded fuel pump when using a standalone ECU and power levels under 300whp. The stock fuel pump will flow plenty. Even bandaid setups should not use the 255 as it has been proven to overpower the stock fuel pressure regulator on the fuel rail and give higher than stock fuel pressure at all times=BAD! If you're looking to replace your OEM fuel pump simply due to age, a standard Walbro 190lph (not the HP model) is your cheapest solution for a better-than-OEM unit that matches power levels up to around 300whp.

I also don't see an LC1 or AEM wideband in your parts list.
eBay CXRacing IC's are very popular around here, cheap and many different configurations to suit your exact routing needs. They also carry all the couplers, clamps, piping and knock-off BOV's you'll need.
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Old 09-23-2008, 02:41 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flier129 View Post
yeah i thought about the 2860 but im looking for better response since ill mostly be doing autox. looks like the 02 bung comes with the seperated gases dp, i was also wondering about the benfits of it.

thinking about going all out and getting a s4 kit, morely for the SS manifold. would the begi IC have more effecient flow vs an ebay IC so u wouldnt lose as much psi? is it worth the extra money?

i guess its all relative to ur goals

contact begi for the exact date but very shortly they will be releasing the tubular manifold for the s kit. it will be called the ssr kit. it is worth waiting IMO. it like a few weeks away i believe. if your doing autocross, the 2554 has the best response time and that is what i am going to be ordering. and as far as the seperated gases DP, it flows much better than the normal one and puts less stress on the turbo i believe. someone correct me if im wrong. it allows the wastegate gases to have their own exit tubing, which creates less backpressure and allows faster spooling. and as far as the ebay IC vs. begi. im sure the begi is higher quality but as far as performance goes, i dont think it is a HUGE difference. again though, this could be completely wrong. ask someone who knows more about it than i do.(pretty much everyone)
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Old 09-24-2008, 11:38 AM   #16
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ahh, all good information .

ill definately wait on that ssr kit, also getiing a sperated gases dp and ill probly go with a ebay IC just to save money. im wanting the 2560 because id like to see near 300 rwhp numbers later on and the spoil up is still pretty quick from what ive read.

its good that us nubs get the right info tho
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Old 09-24-2008, 04:32 PM   #17
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Quote:
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You have the stainless coolant and oil lines on here twice. So delete the seperate item. It is already listed with the kit.
Stephanie
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Old 09-24-2008, 04:39 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flawxy View Post
Is it still a good idea to get a wbo2 along with the ms? so if i order the ms from begi would be ordering the begi kit with ms and no fuel management?
Yes, it is a good idea. If I am not mistaken, the MS PNP needs to run off of a WB O2 sensor.

Quote:
Also is it a waste of money for me to get the seperated gases dp? or should i just get the regular one? can i get the regular one in stainless? on the kits webpage it gives me the option that says "material". is that for the charge pipe or is that everything in stainless? also, it has the coolant lines in stainless for $150. is it the coolant or oil line that they recommend you get in stainless as the rubber has a short life?
It is not a waste to get the separated gases downpipe. It will help the low end spool tremendously. It will be a little harder to install, and the coolant line (under the manifold) will need to be bent out of the way.

On the "materials", that is a reference to downpipe material. Stainless or Mild Steel. Both will eventually corrode. The mild steel will go faster though. If you live in a hot area, go with the stainless. It will make the foot well a little bit cooler by insulating the heat in the pipe.

I'd go with stainless vs. rubber line so that you do not have to change the rubber lines every so often. My stainless lines have been in three years, and have never been touched. Rubber lines get replaced (usually) every year. Sorry, but I too lazy to do that!

Quote:
this is what i have so far. keep in mind that i wanted tot get the new begi manifold for the s kit which should be coming out soon. its tubular. steph sais the base kit will be bumped up to about $2100. is this stupid for me to buy or should i just go for the log manifold? let me know if any of the stainless stuff is redundant or pointless. id like cheap but reliable.
The new stainless manifold system is done. I will post photos in a little while. But the BEGI-SSM will start off at $2039.00 for the 1.6L. It will include the manifold brace also.
Hope that helps,
Stephanie
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Old 09-24-2008, 04:41 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paul View Post
Maybe Stephanie can chime in here:

The BEGi S kit lists for $1905.
That includes the BEGi RR-AFPR/FMU. That item separately goes for $199.
If I want to opt for the MSPNP option instead it adds $700. Now if I wanted to buy the MSPNP seperately it would cost me $740 through BEGi. So since the RR-AFPR is not needed with the MSPNP shouldn't there be a credit in an amount approaching the $199 that the AFPR costs? Seems to me that opting for the MSPNP with the turbo kit should be around a $541 additional charge. Or is BEGi still including the AFPR for those running smaller injectors? I'd like to see the option to actually delete it on the order form for the additional savings.
You are right. The $700 price is wrong. I will get it fixed. It should be $590.00. We give a $150 credit for removing the FMU from the BEGI-S kit.
Thanks for the heads up!
Stephanie
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Old 09-24-2008, 04:48 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flier129 View Post
BEGI-S Turbo System 1994-1997
- Color : Black Powdercoating
- Material : Mild Steel
- Wideband O2 Bung : Wideband O2 Bung +$20.00
- Cruise Control : no
- Turbo Size : GT2560 +$200.00
- Intercooler Size : none
- Fueling Option : MegaSquirt PNP +$700.00
- Add Bypass Valve : none
- Heat Shield : add +$89.00
- Add Oil Pan Drill and Tap : no
- Add Stainless Braid Coolant line : yes +$150.00
- Add Separated Gases Downpipe : No
$3,064.00

decided to just get a mspnp from begi and paul has a point on the %541 price but got think that all the competitors will have it at 700 also.
I need to change that MS PNP price also. It should be $590.00.


Quote:
maybe an ebay IC or BEGi's (if begis is cake compared to a diy ebay ill do it)
thats all i can think of atm..... what am i missing?
The IC upgrade includes the water bypass kit to make room for the compressor outlet tube. It also includes clamps and turbo hose. The IC is rated to 205 whp though.
Stephanie
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