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Old 10-24-2008, 09:29 PM   #1
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Default Greddy project has lost momentum... what's a good next step?

So I've spent a while getting my car into shape, and now that it seems to have a decent amount of power, I don't know what I should do to get more. I wonder if you all would mind giving a couple suggestions to help review the stuff I've learned from a year of hanging out on here.

I know I need engine management, but want a good bang for the buck and have no experience tuning. I have an Innovate wideband and always show between 10.5 and 11.5 when boosting. No ping.

How I am equipped now with the motor-related stuff:
Greddy turbo, slightly tightened wastegate + MBC at 5.5psi
Stripes pipes and 18x12x3 IC
Vortech FMU, 12:1 and 1.8 Tan injectors
190HP fuel pump
Crappy GFB VTA BOV
2.5" Tony downpipe and cat, 3" Enthuza catback
7* BTDC timing (wiggles between 6 and 8, i think it's the harbor freight timing light's fault)
BKR7Es plugs and NGK blue wires
91 octane California pisswater


Some possibilities:
just had a set of 305cc Supra injectors cleaned
bought the full set of FMU recal discs
i have an RX-7 AFM, but i'd have to get rid of the NB suspension to make it fit, which sucks
COPs are being built


I figure the easiest thing to do is just buy a Bipes so I can get my timing back, pop in the new injectors and change the FMU disc, then add boost. Am I on the right track? Could I add a little more boost now, or maybe lean it out a bit with a different FMU disc?

Thanks for any advice.

Last edited by Latch; 10-24-2008 at 09:31 PM. Reason: "190HP fuel pump"
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Old 10-24-2008, 10:15 PM   #2
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My advice in bold:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Latch View Post
Greddy turbo, EBC @ 13-15 psi
Stripes pipes and 18x12x3 IC good, go larger if you still want more, or try WI
Megasquirt and injectors = or > 440cc
190HP fuel pump
Crappy GFB VTA BOV
2.5" Tony downpipe and cat, 3" Enthuza catback same as me, almost. De-cat if you want more
set timing to stock (after MS install)
BKR7Es plugs and COPsI haven't had any issue with BKR6Es, YMMV
91 octane California pisswater consider moving east of TX
This is a tried and true path to getting the most from a Greddy turbo.
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Old 10-24-2008, 10:17 PM   #3
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sell your tan tops, FMU.

buy an MS, and you should be ok with 8-9psi on those 305cc injectors.

I didn't have any expereince in tuning, but MS is pretty much fool proof now with all the support and maps to try.
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Old 10-24-2008, 10:18 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by kotomile View Post
My advice in bold:
+1. You can also sell off all you bandaids to recoupe some of the cost upgrading engine management. It will be worth it no doubt. If you want more now you'll want more later. You buy MS you'll never need another ECU. You buy a bipes and 6 months from now you'll be selling it to get a MS.
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Old 10-24-2008, 10:26 PM   #5
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+1. You can also sell off all you bandaids to recoupe some of the cost upgrading engine management. It will be worth it no doubt. If you want more now you'll want more later. You buy MS you'll never need another ECU. You buy a bipes and 6 months from now you'll be selling it to get a MS.
Kinda like I did..

By the time you buy a bipes, install the RX7 AFM (worsening the suspension in the process.. ), and try to make all the bandaids work in harmony, you could have saved yourself the trouble, gotten an EMS and bigger injectors, and started tuning.
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Old 10-24-2008, 11:46 PM   #6
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I know MS is the best answer, but it requires learning a ton of new stuff, plus investing another grand and a few weeks of downtime (I'm busy with work and school). I'll probably get there eventually, I just want some more return on my investment before I open another vein.

Thinking of all the time and money I put into 150whp is kind of demoralizing, which is probably why I've lost momentum with it. The answers I hunger over most are to these guys:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Latch View Post
Could I add a little more boost now, or maybe lean it out a bit with a different FMU disc?
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Old 10-24-2008, 11:52 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Latch View Post
I know MS is the best answer, but it requires learning a ton of new stuff, plus investing another grand and a few weeks of downtime (I'm busy with work and school). I'll probably get there eventually, I just want some more return on my investment before I open another vein.

Thinking of all the time and money I put into 150whp is kind of demoralizing, which is probably why I've lost momentum with it. The answers I hunger over most are to these guys:
Well, sure. You got a wideband. So keep an sharp eye for it. You may have to run less base timing if you get knock. I'd run like 10.5 to 11:1 AFR's to be safe and it will help with the timing issue.

But as already said don't spend more money on band aids if you need surgery to get where you wanna be.
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Old 10-25-2008, 12:06 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Latch View Post
I know MS is the best answer, but it requires learning a ton of new stuff, plus investing another grand and a few weeks of downtime (I'm busy with work and school). I'll probably get there eventually, I just want some more return on my investment before I open another vein.

Thinking of all the time and money I put into 150whp is kind of demoralizing, which is probably why I've lost momentum with it. The answers I hunger over most are to these guys:
MS is not hard, is not a grand (not even for the PNP), and not even one business week of downtime (I did mine 2.5 hours from my house with two other mt.net members and drove it home the same day), and you WILL get there eventually, because replacing the ECU is key. Might as well do it now, if you're serious about wanting some power. Stop pouring money into bandaids which won't get you to your goal, and sell what you have stored up (should halve the cost of the MS...)
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Old 10-25-2008, 12:16 AM   #9
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I know bipes suposed to be better. But if a steal of a deal came up for a MSD boost timing retard, I wouldn't turn it down. I'm running one on my second miata, and one on my brothers S/C miata.

That all goes back to how much you wanna spend. Hustler & John Wag sold me one for $75.00. 2 months later I seen 2 on ebay sell in the same day. One for $30 & one for $100. For thirty bucks I would wake up and bid at 3 in the morning.

Deals come around. But I wouldn't buy either new.
Good Luck.
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Old 11-17-2008, 04:52 PM   #10
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You already have the turbo and the band-aids. Welcome to the point where if you want more you need to switch over from the "doing it cheap" method (sell the band aids) and move on to doing it right (buy a ecu: I HIGHLY recommend MSPNP). You may want a bit more power for now but seriously you're talking about hours of work and more money invested to just take you farther away from the direction you need to go in the long run and for what? Maybe 10 whp or less? You can hardly feel that difference.

As to thinking that you have to learn a whole new language to operate a new ecu - think again. I thought exactly that back when I was running the base Greddy kit and was considering the pros/cons of going the band aid (mechanical control) route or getting the Megasquirt. I was really hesitant to go with an ecu because I didn't want to jump into what, from the perspective of someone who has never dealt with such things, seems to be a foreign language. Compounding that, I was worried about reliability - in my head, mechanical stuff like FPR's and such seemed more reliable to me than a complex high tech ecu... After some discussion with Savington, I finally just decided I needed to have a little faith and bought the MSPNP - I even went the extra mile and got the full-on standalone version.

I could not have been more worried about absolutely nothing. It is terribly easy to install. Once installed, it takes just a few moments to set up the software on a computer. Read the Megasquirt FAQ, follow the simple steps to set things up, and soon I was absolutely amazed at how cool it was that I was completely tuning everything about how the motor runs and operates.

-Ryan
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