MSM manifold - turbo gasket
 

I blew the manifold to turbo gasket twice this year while out on track. Using standard, not inconel hardware which I know is part of the problem. I want to fix it one more time, properly. Should I...

1 - Replace the gasket and add inconel
2 - Install inconel with no gasket
3 - Resurface turbo/manifold flat and add inconel with no gasket

I know a lot of you are running gasket-less. How flat do the flanges need to be? I'd like to stick a feeler gauge under a straight edge on the turbo and if flat enough avoid the giant pain in the ass that is pulling a MSM turbo. Is a HD Racing combination square straight (:giggle:) enough for this measurement?

option 3 = win

as for the flat part: its either flat or its not. if its not, it will leak. lol

I'll have to find a piece of glass and see how straight my 3/8 extension is. What's the biggest feeler gauge I should allow between the straight edge and flange? Do I need another option?

4 - Don't be a bitch and pull that shit already

Oh, option 4 definitely.

No need for the extension straight option on a turbo/manifold, it's small enough you can get a straight edge like the one you listed to work. The extension is for a bigger surface, like your block.

I'm not sure on which feeler gauge would be good to use, you'd think it wouldn't have to be as flat as a block, but I really don't know how sensitive it is to being out of flat.

if you machine it right you shouldn't be able to get any feeler gauge anywhere. it will be FLAT

Flat is .000". If it's not .000", it's not flat.

Thanks. Flat it is. I really wish you sold a M8x1.25 Inconel kit Savington. It's tight as-is and I'm not sure M10 nuts will fit.

I thought TSE offered an M8 kit as well. If not, FM does offer an M8 setup:

Flyin' Miata : Turbochargers : Parts and upgrades : Inconel 718 turbo stud
Flyin' Miata : Turbochargers : Parts and upgrades : Stage 8 locking turbo hardware(8mm)

If you can't get the m10 to work, those might do the trick (albeit not as stout as the m10 solution).

Just out of interest are you using the OE turbo brace that ties the turbo to the block?

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1357793500

Yep

That is one piece I still have to find for my MSM turbo swap. Is there any reason not to run that brace? I got the FM 8mm Inconel studs a while back and they appear to fit perfectly on the MSM hardware lenthwhise.

So you're suggesting he requires a ground surface on his manifold and turbo to create an adequate seal?

I'd bet $5 of monopoly money no one's ever done that on this forum.

My turbo to mani seal used a little wheel bearing grease as discussed in another thread from a few years back. It fill the minute gaps and turns to hard carbon as it warms up.

You owe me $5 or monopoly monies.

You've had your manifold and turbo professionally ground? Grats on the overkill.

On both of my turbo setups (old ass 300zx t25 & used HKS mani / Chinacharger & Flying miata cast mani) I was able to just bolt the turbo to manifold with no gaskets and had zero leaks. OP, have you tried just running it without a gasket?

make that 10
it was like 20 for the turbo and like 40 for the mani. really not that bad to have the piece of mind of overkill

Belt sanded is not .000 flat. .000 flat is ground like your crank shaft bearing surface. Except that's round obviously.

Machined=/=belt sanded

That gasket is terrible im on my 3rd

Finally found time to pull it apart. Surprisingly the gasket is still in one piece and actually looks fine. Don't know if the studs actually stretched or if it was just because half of them loosened up. It's a pita to pull the manifold so I'm just going to bolt it back up with Inconel, stage 8 and Resbond. If the flanges are not true I'm going to regret this decision.

Are you sticking with M8? Let me know how you go. I have used M8 studs but haven't used Resbond, then again I'm only running ~8 pounds.

Sticking with M8, don't think I'd be able to squeeze M10 in there. There's a very distinct lack of room with the MSM turbo setup. I'd like to swap it out for an EFR and 275whp but that requires money and a built engine. I have neither right now and I still need a lot of non-turbo shit before I get back out this year.

So is this confirmation that the FM M8 stuff works on the MSM?

I'm about to dig into replacing the head-to-manifold gasket on my MSM because it's a leaky piece of shit, and may as well do this while i'm in there if it works and is easy.

:noob:

They are both M8x1.25, so yes they work just fine. Don't bother replacing that gasket, leave it in the trash where it belongs.

I was lazy and just pulled the gasket out and slapped it all back together with Inconel. No machining, no measuring. I've driven a whopping 50 miles so far and no leaks yet. I'll wait till after my first track day to declare it a success but so far so good.

Kevin, I think he was refering to head to manifold, not the manifold to turbo. I've never heard of anyone not running the one he is reffering to. Mine's actually starting to leak too.

Ben, if you're staying M8, you can give this hardware some consideration as well. Some of us around here are running it with success.

1990-1996 Nissan 300zx OEM Turbo to Downpipe Stud

Thats what is going to be going into my car. Check the epic studs loosening thread, my source was cheaper than that. I've also got a metric dick load of copper lock nuts because I bought them in packs of 25. I have flanged and non-flanged I'll do 20 bucks for a set of 4 shipped for em.

Oh... i'm replacing the head-to-manifold gasket. Wasn't really planning on replacing the manifold-to-turbo gasket, i don't have a problem with that one leaking.

But, i've heard the horror stories so was thinking about replacing THOSE with the Iconel stuff.

Now i'm getting confused, my apologies for being dense. I haven't spent a whole lot of time in the engine bay of this thing.

Are you guys suggesting i replace the studs on the head that the manifold goes over with this stuff, too? Or just the turbo-to-manifold studs?

Apologies for threadjacking OP, but i appreciate the info. :)

Just the manifold to turbo.

That's what i thought, but i wasn't sure. I think it was the mis-communication caused by me shitting on the thread about my exhaust manifold gasket. Sorry 'bout that.

Any input on what to do about the chronic loosening of the fasteners that hold the manifold on the head on these cars?

PMing you about the copper locknuts.

You mean I was actually supposed to read the part where he specifically said head-to-manifold gasket?:rofl:
That's one of the few places I haven't had problems yet, and I'm sure it will now be the next thing to leak.

Are your head-manifold studs backing out? Or just the nuts loosening up? Resbond on the stock studs + Stage 8 nuts should keep all of it together. Looking around...there aren't a lot of options for M10x1.25 lock nuts.

I'm pretty sure it's just the nuts loosening up. Wasn't sure if they were M8 or M10. I'll do some digging.

Oh, and that gasket will leak, if it hasn't leaked already. Dig down into it, i bet you'll see soot in at least a place or two. :giggle:

When I first pulled my turbo and whole exhaust system apart (I'm sure you both know how much that sucks), besides the broken studs and such, about half of the studs in the head backed out with the nuts.

I used resbond to put the studs back in and then used some of the nuts I had that were still good, and then ordered/found some others for the rest.

Haven't really had any problems with them backing out yet, but haven't been on the track yet either.

I did a track day yesterday and had one of the studs back out with the nut still on it tight, I was running wastegate boost. Is your M8 setup still holding up OK midpack?

Semi old thread, I'm subscribing for potential future reference. Plus the last question wasn't answered.

So far no problems with Inconel, Resbond, and stage 8 hardware. I've only done one trackday so far and it's held up ok. Though to be honest, it was a new track for me with lots of concrete walls and I have this aversion to hitting very hard objects so I drove like a little boy most of the day. Thinking back on it, both of my leaks developed after a day at Putnam Park and I don't know when I'll make it back out there. Waited too long to register for this weekend's event which reminds me, I need to register for Hallett next month.

Where can I get one of those

It's OEM, so probably the dealer. MSM part.


Anyways... i replaced my head-to-manifold gasket. Doesn't seem to have helped anything, but i know that gasket was leaking. Still hearing an exhaust leak. The turbo-to-manifold gasket is NOT leaking, and i've replaced all the gaskets in the exhaust. No visible signs of leaking.

Driving me batty.

Check manifold real close for crackes

Is that a thing on MSMs? The huge brick shithouse cast iron manifold cracking?



Either way, no evidence of cracking.

How much stock turbo, goes for?

At least a few dozen thousand miles.

Track update: Spent the weekend at Hallett with NASA and had a fantastic time. They even treated us to a clockwise session on Sunday - that was awesomely fun.

2 days of punishment and no leaks. Fast times were 1:33.1 and 1:37.1 clockwise on street tires.

Ran Autobahn last weekend with NASA, 2 days for a total of 8 sessions. No leaks yet. Fast time of 1:43.1. I need to learn to drive faster.