Need some advice on purchasing Mazdaspeed Turbo Kit.
 

I got a friend of mine in Huntsville that is selling his stock Mazdaspeed Turbo Kit. Now he is wanting 900 dollars for it. It has turbo, manifold, downpipe, lines, and pretty much everything? What do you guys think? It's got 20,000 on the setup...

Next thing I need to know, is it a bolt in affair on a 1999 10th Anniversary?

Kinda bolt on affair. Will need a bit of exhaust work...unless he is going to include the stock MSM DP and mid-pipe. You will still need to tap for oil drain. But the manifold/turbo does bolt right up. And I think the ERG pipe even works with no problems.

IC setup included?

Go to m.net and do a title search for MSM in the turbo sub-forum and read till you're full. I just looked and there are numerous threads dedicated to putting an MSM turbo in a non-turbo Miata.

You will need a Mazdaspeed water pump inlet, or find an aluminum welder to modify your current piece.

To be honest, all I really need then is the Header, Turbo, heatshield, lines, ect... cause i'll more than definitely install a corksport intercooler kit and performance downpipe...

I wonder if the MSM ECU's work fine with a 99-2000, since they are practically the same engines...

not the same. compression is lower in the msm, and I believe intake cam is different also.

Really? I thought it was basically a 99 engine with a turbo. I learned something new today.

900 dollars for a stock MSM kit? id CONSIDER it if it was 400. for 900, you can get yourself a begi manifold, a used T25, a discounted begi downpipe and all the lines. OR wait for the BEGI DIY kits to come out.

MSM's did not have variable valve timing either, further complicating any ecu compatibility.

You are right on the intake cam, but partially wrong on the compression ratio. You are right that it's lower, but '01-'05 engines are 10:1, MSMs are dropped to 9.5:1, which is the standard compression ratio for '99-'00.

Neither did the '99-'00 engines. Only '01-'05 non-MSM had VVT.

+1
$900 is too pricey. Turbo can be had for $200 on eBay, manifold for $50-75, stock downpipe $75.00, and the oil lines will not work anyway.....
Stephanie

As far as I know, the Mazdaspeed Miatas have identical engines with the 99-2000 Miatas and 9.5:1 compression ratio; however, the 99-2000 Miatas have Mazda's Variable Intake Control System and the Mazdaspeed Miatas do not...

That's why I was wondering how the ecu would work... (But according to what I have read, the zoom3 or PC pro would be a much better option for fuel and ignition) Seems like the factory ecu just isn't all that great to begin with...

The MSM ECU is not compatible with the 99 miata unless you move the sensors also. The MSM ECI is notorious for programming flaws, so I would not even consider it an option. The 99 ECU is much easier to work with and/or around. :)
Stephanie

I think the head is different. There is a guy on the MSM site 95MSM that has done it and could probably answer any question you have.

Cheapest turbo I've seen on ebay is around $239. Most are closer to $300. The problem is, a lot of people that have the stuff think it's worth more than some people are willing to pay. however, if you can get everthing from the guy, IMO that's not a bad price.

Clearly asking 900-1000 dollars for the entire kit is too much for the fact that every oem piece is restrictive. All I need is the turbo, manifold, and cast downpipe. I'll do the rest...

Used prices should be determined by mileage, etc. Call Mazda and get a price on all new stuff. You may be surprised by how $1,000 could be a good deal.

Hmm, interesting. I was under the impression that they had 8.8:1 or something like that, from seeing it posted somewhere. Well in that case I apologize for the misleading statement.

I decided to just stay out of this one, but $900 is not a bad deal. Up until a few months ago when someone in Japan started selling the turbos on ebay, they were going for no less than 400-500 dollars. New, a hell of a lot more. I got $75 for just my manifold. Stock DP went for $150. You add up all the parts you need, if you can find them used and from someone who is not delusional on it's worth, $900 starts to look pretty good.

I think that 900 is a great price for an entry level kit. We have a member in the club running the kit on a stock 99 with the Voodoo box. Not the best setup in the world but the car is pretty peppy.

The kit should work on a 99 fine but stick with the stock ecu and run a piggy back.

However i do agree that once you get into the 1500 dollar range you should start to look at what else is out there.

I am pretty sure the cheapest BEGI kit will run you over 1500, and do a alot of research before you let someone talk you into a DIY kit. Even a prefabbed kit can be difficult to figure out.

Many people are delusional about what is involved in turbos it not there car it yours.

Also Keep in mind that turbos can easily cost you an extra grand just trying to get everything working together, even on some prefabbed kits.

For some reason, any time I have tried to fab my own stuff, It ends up costing a lot more than I initially planned.

Well i've had people email me asking 300 dollars for their Mazdaspeed Manifold, so I called Corky Bell from Bell Engineering and he laughed at it!

First he said the casting is an abomination, then he said he would talk to Stephanie to see if he could source me one...for around 75-100.

Come on, I mean you can get an HKS T25 manifold for that much or one of Bell Engineerings kick ass t25 manifolds

Really... I guess you can say 1000 dollars is reasonable for the entire Mazdaspeed Turbo kit, but that would definitely include the steel downpipe and midpipe pieces as well... And also if you are going to be happy with the stock 140-150 rwhp...

The prob comes in right here... Mazdaspeed Miata turbo kits are notoriously known to be very restrictive from the factory. How many people out their have ditch their entire intake, intercooler assembly, downpipe, and midpipe, stock recirculation valve assembly, and boost control, in order to get that 210 RWHP that the car should have had from the factory. :)

I've drove a 2005 MSM Miata... and for any noticable increase in power it has to be over 4000 rpms and in open loop...

In my past, I have built three supercharged Miata's (JRSC m45, 2 powercarded, one voodoo boxed) and one Bell Series 3 GT2860RS Kit with 460RX-7 injectors and Megasquirt PNP.

The reason why I am going with the Mazdaspeed Miata setup is because I can have a reasonably powerful car with an easy to rebuild or cheap to replace turbocharger...

For 2,200 dollars. I can have this...

Mazdaspeed IHI turbo.
Mazdaspeed Manifold and Cast Downpipe.
Enthuza midpipe and possibly downpipe if Jason can build the downpipe.
Corksport Intercooler system.
Recirculating blowoff valve.

PC-Pro engine management or Zoom 3 for a little more.

Decent and reliable 190-200 rwhp...

I sold mine for $50

You are partially correct. With only an AEM intake and a 3 psi boost increase I was able to put down 184 rwhp. But yeah, after that you'll need more parts. I told you a lot of guys ask too much for their old parts.

Damn sounds pretty good there. I got a guy selling me his manifold, downpipe, intercooler, charge pipes, recirculating unit, all but the turbo for 200 dollars.

I've driven a 2004 Mazdaspeed Miata and to what I recall, it has no pull until after 4000 rpms or when the engine goes open loop... then its a good tug then BAM rev limited, at somehere around 6500... Stephanie seemed to agree that given my car is a 99 10th anniversary, that the piggyback Zoom3 or PC Pro would be fantastic as the 99-2000 ECU are much much easier to work around as the 2001-2005 ECUs... To what I hear, one of the weakest links, other than restrictive intakes and exhaust (Guess it has to be that way to reduce NHV and make the car quiet, which it definitely was) and a bad batch of turbos, is unfortunately the ECU itself. That 99-2000 with Zoom3 may prove to have better drivability than even the original ECU!

You ever looked at Flyin Miata's Dyno after replacing the intake, exhaust, and adding a manual boost control, non leaky bypass valve and 02 signal modifier. Not only does peak power jump considerably, but the powerband which that torque is available comes in at a much lower RPM.

http://www.flyinmiata.com/tech/dyno_...ke_2_no_AF.pdf

Dude that is outstanding given the stock MSM only makes around 148 horsepower...


That sucker jumped all the way to 203. Now I wonder if my stock 99' injectors will flow enough to give me a solid 12.5:1-12:1 air/fuel ratio.

just grab some supra/RX7/RX8 injectors, they are all plug-and-play! (and flow much better as well)

will they not cause a considerable decline in fuel economy?

wow i wish there was a carb approved version. not entirely too crazy about those chinese turboes tho

On the MSM a simple O2 modifier smooths out that surge at 4000 rpm. The stock exauhst isn't that noisy. louder than stick but not that bad. The ECU is the main problem that causes that. I baselined my MSM before I did any upgrades. It baselined at 154 rwhp on a dynoject. Which is pretty consistant with what I have seen from most. Seem to me the best ECU solution is what you already layed out, your stock on with a piggyback. You should feel that 4000 rpm surge with that. I believe your injectors are the same as the MSM, around 265 CC. I was pretty close to 200 rwhp on my stock injectors...don't know what the duty cycle looked like.

I have a spare turbo, although I'm not looking to sell it for a while. I plan to use it for a compressor wheel upgrade in the spring. I don't know what kind of time line you are looking at, but once I get the upgrade done I'd be willing to sell it for a couple hundred bucks.

I think this is really going to go good with my 10th Anniversary. I closed the deal with Skip Cannon. For 200 dollars plus shipping, i'm getting the manifold, downpipe, all intercooler charge pipes, intercooler, recirculating unit, intake pieces. All I need now is a nice ebaycooler, a zoom 3/voodoo/pc pro, and i'll get with Jason to build a nice downpipe and midpipe section later on. And of course, a low mileage IHI turbo.

Begi can also make you a DP. I think the one that the sell for the MSM will work on it. But steph would be the better person to ask. The company I was planning to get my compressor upgrade from seems to be out of business. I only know of one other company doing this type of upgrade and I'm not to likely to go throught them. If this proves to be true, I'll sell you my spare turbo.

Wherever you buy the IHI / MSM turbo, send it to Begi for porting before you install it! Before porting my MSM often experienced boost creep. After porting, it can hold 10-11 all day long. I highly recommend their porting service.

MSMs have COP ignition too. Anyone know if MSM engines have the bearing support plate and crank scraper like found on 01-05 blocks?

A VERY GOOD IDEA!!!! It is free too.

The MSM turbo is notorious for boost creep.
Stephanie