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Old 07-30-2006, 11:55 AM   #1
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Default New guy with GReddy questions...

Hi everybody

I have pretty much gone through my car: tune-up, cooling system flush, checked compression, full synthetics, baseline dyno, dyno tune, some performance enhancements, etc...

Here's a recent post about my 1993 Miata here:

http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=191020

I am going to purchase a complete used GReddy kit with a Bipes included and the manifold relief cuts already made for $1100. It has 5000 miles on it and the guy seems like a straight shooter. He said that according to his boost gauge that he was pushing 6-7psi. He said that he tightened down the waste gate all the way. Does this seem like a pretty decent deal? The same stuff new with shipping, etc... would cost me about $1500 plus.

I will eventually add an intercooler and probably upgrade my fuel pump. Not sure what else at this point, but What I really want to know from you guys who are experienced with the GReddy kit is how I can maximize the driveability of the kit. What do I mean by "driveability"? I want it to be a smooth application of power and I want to minimize the turbo lag and sudden burst of power. In other words I want it to simply feel like a larger engine. Id that possible? I know that I will probably add a blow off valve almost immediantly and that this combined with the higher base timing allowed by the Bipes unit should help. Am I in the right track? What is the best/cheapest BOV to use with this kit?

I was also planning on custom designing my own heat sheild from sheet aluminum and also coating the down pipe with ceramic before installing. Shouldn't this help with temperature control? Does anyone sell spray on ceramic coating? Shouldn't they have that at the Autozone?

Sorry for the longish post and thanks in advance for any replies.
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Old 07-30-2006, 12:32 PM   #2
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I'll add my compliments to the great job you did on your car

If the seller IS a "straight shooter", it seems like a pretty good deal to me.

The Bipes and BOV will have the car feeling the same as it does now at low load, but you won't have the feeling of a more powerful engine until your RPM's get up a little. Your stock exhaust will keep it from being a real "Kick-in-the-***" since it will spool slower and at higher RPM than a wide open exhaust would, but you will certainly feel it

The Bosch plastic BOV seems to be about the cheapest and pretty reliable. Unless you are looking for the noise, I would recirculate it.
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Old 07-30-2006, 12:36 PM   #3
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Welcome to the list, B&T. Some excellent questions, and it sounds like you've done your homework on this one. I remember following your story over at M.net- you lucky bastard.

6-7 PSI from a stock TD04H turbo (what Greddy uses) sounds reasonable, assuming the previous owner was using a stock exhaust system. I'm not sure what all he is including beyond the base kit, but $1,100 is not bad, though you'll sometimes see them new for $1,200 - $1,300.

Bell Engineering sells what looks to me like a Bosch bypass valve for $55. It's towards the bottom of this page: http://tinyurl.com/mkh2g BEGi is a very Miata-friendly place, and I recommend them.

As to coatings, I've never used them but Tech Line has some very interesting looking products to this end: http://tinyurl.com/n5ost What's unique is that the coating is applied in liquid form and either oven-cured or bolted on and cured in place.

Now, driveability... Several improvements can be made here.

First off, the Greddy kit does not have any provision for dynamic ignition retard. They just expect you to dial back your base timing to 6 BTDC and live with it. That's rubbish, especially since with the 93 octane gas you'll be using you can easily run a 14 BTDC baseline timing when not in boost and experiance far improved low-end power. The most inexpensive product for this is the Bipes ACU: http://tinyurl.com/ou6hw This little gadget monitors airflow (or optionally, manifold pressure, which I recommend) and reduces ignition timing by a variable amount when under boost, based on RPM and temperature. Very cool.

I'll add one caveat here on the grounds that it may save you money in the long-term. If you decide to go any higher than 8 PSI or so you're going to be entering the world of larger fuel injectors. This also requires a computer upgrade to deal with. The latest thing in fuel control is also made by Greddy, called the eManage Ultimate. Now, the thing is that this box also does ignition timing control. So if you think you're going to go this route it might be better to just buy the EMU rather than the Bipes and kill two birds with one stone. The EMU is a bit complex to setup, but there's a ton of knowledge and experience on this board willing to help with that. Depending on where you live, someone may actually drive over and physically help you do it, in exchange for beer.

Ok, departing from that tangent... One of the best upgrades you can do to an otherwise unmolested Greddy turbo is the exhaust. The whole damn thing. First off, the downpipe that comes with the Greddy is utter garbage. There's a fellow named TurboTony on this list who makes fabulous 2.5” downpipes (and fabulous 2.5” catalytic converters) and sells them to forum members rather cheaply. Generically, we call it the Tony Pipe or Tony DP around here. I got mine last week, and it's gorgeous. See here: http://tinyurl.com/hzb6p

Secondarily, there are several cat-back exhaust systems made specifically for turbo Miatae. The least costly is made by Enthuza, called the Budget Turbo Racer. http://tinyurl.com/nk3q5 Like Tony, this is also a one-man operation, so it can take a while, but quality seems to be good.

Once all this is done, you can start looking at boost increases. You've already mentioned an intercooler. With a Greddy, your options are a bit limited. You can DIY, or there's a fellow on this list names Stripes who is building ready-made ones: http://tinyurl.com/sx33b Whatever you do, avoid dealing with someone named J-I-M-B on this. I've had to space out his name and busines since there's actually a filter on this forum server which deletes it. That's how bad things got.

At that point, it's basically just going to be a matter of installing an inexpensive mechanical boost controller and turning the **** until your grin can't get any bigger, or until you snap the stock 1.6 differential, which is common failure in higher-boost applications.
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Old 07-30-2006, 12:58 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olderguy
I'll add my compliments to the great job you did on your car

If the seller IS a "straight shooter", it seems like a pretty good deal to me.

The Bipes and BOV will have the car feeling the same as it does now at low load, but you won't have the feeling of a more powerful engine until your RPM's get up a little. Your stock exhaust will keep it from being a real "Kick-in-the-***" since it will spool slower and at higher RPM than a wide open exhaust would, but you will certainly feel it

The Bosch plastic BOV seems to be about the cheapest and pretty reliable. Unless you are looking for the noise, I would recirculate it.
Thanks for the compliment. I'll go ahead and order a BOV ASAP. So it looks like a downpipe upgrade is in the future too. Thanks for the advice.

Do you have a picture of a Bosch BOV that is recirculated?
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Old 07-30-2006, 01:09 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez
Welcome to the list, B&T. Some excellent questions, and it sounds like you've done your homework on this one. I remember following your story over at M.net- you lucky bastard.
Thanks...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez
6-7 PSI from a stock TD04H turbo (what Greddy uses) sounds reasonable, assuming the previous owner was using a stock exhaust system. I'm not sure what all he is including beyond the base kit, but $1,100 is not bad, though you'll sometimes see them new for $1,200 - $1,300.
The $1100 that I'm buying the kit for includes the Bipes unit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez
Bell Engineering sells what looks to me like a Bosch bypass valve for $55. It's towards the bottom of this page: http://tinyurl.com/mkh2g BEGi is a very Miata-friendly place, and I recommend them.

As to coatings, I've never used them but Tech Line has some very interesting looking products to this end: http://tinyurl.com/n5ost What's unique is that the coating is applied in liquid form and either oven-cured or bolted on and cured in place.
Thanks for the heads up... I will probably purchase the Bosch for BEGI.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez
Now, driveability... Several improvements can be made here.

First off, the Greddy kit does not have any provision for dynamic ignition retard. They just expect you to dial back your base timing to 6 BTDC and live with it. That's rubbish, especially since with the 93 octane gas you'll be using you can easily run a 14 BTDC baseline timing when not in boost and experiance far improved low-end power. The most inexpensive product for this is the Bipes ACU: http://tinyurl.com/ou6hw This little gadget monitors airflow (or optionally, manifold pressure, which I recommend) and reduces ignition timing by a variable amount when under boost, based on RPM and temperature. Very cool.

I'll add one caveat here on the grounds that it may save you money in the long-term. If you decide to go any higher than 8 PSI or so you're going to be entering the world of larger fuel injectors. This also requires a computer upgrade to deal with. The latest thing in fuel control is also made by Greddy, called the eManage Ultimate. Now, the thing is that this box also does ignition timing control. So if you think you're going to go this route it might be better to just buy the EMU rather than the Bipes and kill two birds with one stone. The EMU is a bit complex to setup, but there's a ton of knowledge and experience on this board willing to help with that. Depending on where you live, someone may actually drive over and physically help you do it, in exchange for beer.

Ok, departing from that tangent... One of the best upgrades you can do to an otherwise unmolested Greddy turbo is the exhaust. The whole damn thing. First off, the downpipe that comes with the Greddy is utter garbage. There's a fellow named TurboTony on this list who makes fabulous 2.5 downpipes (and fabulous 2.5 catalytic converters) and sells them to forum members rather cheaply. Generically, we call it the Tony Pipe or Tony DP around here. I got mine last week, and it's gorgeous. See here: http://tinyurl.com/hzb6p
See above remarks regarding the Bipes. I will probably stick with the Bipes and not worry right off about upping the boost too much. Regarding the Downpipe... How long did it take for you to get it from he time you ordered it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez
Secondarily, there are several cat-back exhaust systems made specifically for turbo Miatae. The least costly is made by Enthuza, called the Budget Turbo Racer. http://tinyurl.com/nk3q5 Like Tony, this is also a one-man operation, so it can take a while, but quality seems to be good.
I already have a free flow cat and a cat back exhaust that I just put on a few weeks ago. It seems pretty free flowing and I will probably leave it on for a while. I'm actually hopeing that the turbo will quiet it down a little.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez
Once all this is done, you can start looking at boost increases. You've already mentioned an intercooler. With a Greddy, your options are a bit limited. You can DIY, or there's a fellow on this list names Stripes who is building ready-made ones: http://tinyurl.com/sx33b Whatever you do, avoid dealing with someone named J-I-M-B on this. I've had to space out his name and busines since there's actually a filter on this forum server which deletes it. That's how bad things got.

At that point, it's basically just going to be a matter of installing an inexpensive mechanical boost controller and turning the **** until your grin can't get any bigger, or until you snap the stock 1.6 differential, which is common failure in higher-boost applications.
Thanks for the advice Joe... I'm sure I will be hitting up this group quite often or the next little while. I'm off to buy the turbo kit as we speak.
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