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Old 07-29-2007, 12:02 PM   #1
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Default New Intercooler, 56K Death

Picked up a larger intercooler from M2CupCar. With help from Atl93LE it was installed yesterday evening/night. I think we had 4 hours in the endevour.

Original intercooler was a Blackstone Saab 900 unit with the entry and exit on the same side. Pipes were JIM B under the radiator. New intercooler is a 17x6x3 core with great big sand cast end tanks, and pipes now go around the radiator.

What I brought to the party:
* the intercooler itself
* (2) 2.5" 90 couplers
* (2) bolts and assorted washers
* (2) zip ties
cost: $85

What we reused:
Original pipes, clamps, couplers, mounting straps
We didn't even clean up the old pipes, even though we had access to a blast cabinet

I have a little work to do still to make the intercooler level (need to take 1" off of 2 different pipes on the cold side). Pics below. Sorry was not smart enough to take pics of the around the radiator pipes when the car was in the air yesterday.












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Old 07-29-2007, 12:16 PM   #2
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Sorry for the big pics, but I wanted anyone who was interested in converting JIM to around the radiator to have a road map. It was really pretty easy, we literally reused all the old stuff, just oriented it differently. The only added coupers were the pair of 90s. We shortened 2 pipes on the hot side, and I still need to shorten 2 pipes on the cold side. So overall, there is probably less volume and less restriction in going around the rad.

The instant Ben & I got the intercooler installed and washed our hands, it started to pour. So we started to put the tools up and the rain stopped. As soon as all the tools were away, it poured again.

The drive from my dad's (where we did the work) to my house sucked. It was raining hard, and I had a tough time keeping the nose of the car pointed in the direction I wanted it to go in. It's still wet out today. Hopefully I can get some IAT numbers tomorrow.

We also got some tuning time in Ben's 93LE/16G/MS car. I was really impressed at how smooth his 16G brings on power. It felt much more linear than my car. My car is on/off, his was "supercharger-like".
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Old 07-29-2007, 02:06 PM   #3
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OK, went out and took (3) complete runs all the way from 1 to 4. They were nearly back to back. Forgot to hit the datalog button until the 3rd run though. Here's what I saw from the computer screen from the 3rd run, comparing to a 1st run with my old intercooler. IAT is down 5-10F. CLT is up 5F. The car pulls harder up top. I got squirrely at the top of 3rd twice. There is no undertray, ducting, or shrouding in place right now.

I am happy, and surprised, at how much better she pulls up top. I assume it is due mainly to less restriction from the turbo to the throttle, but won't discount the fact that less hot air made its way to the motor.
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Old 07-29-2007, 02:26 PM   #4
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i bet the cooler air makes a pretty big difference up top, maybe more than you are willing to admit. When that greddy turbo is pushing 14psi at 6-7k rpm i bet its starting to blow a lot of hot air ... anyway, looks pretty nice, but no straight on front grille shots?
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Old 07-29-2007, 03:31 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akaryrye View Post
no straight on front grille shots?
He's smarter than that It was getting late and we wanted it hooked in far enough for him to drive home.

I'm betting the higher CLT is 100% due to lack of undertray, nose funnel, or shrouding.
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Old 07-29-2007, 04:02 PM   #6
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Looks crooked as **** in the pic, but in reality the pass side is only ~1" lower than the driver side. We didn't have a proper saw to cut the pipes down, plus we just reused the original mounting straps, and it was getting late. So we rolled with it. I don't think a casual passer by would notice that it's crooked. Looks ok in person.

It is definately off center because of the a/c can. Nothing to do about that. And if you think you know the obvious solution--don't go there.
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Old 07-29-2007, 04:37 PM   #7
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First Image: 1-2-3 Pull from 06-10-2007
Starting IAT 102
Finish IAT 130
∆ 28

Second Image: 2-3-4 Pull from 06-10-2007
Starting IAT 96
Finish IAT 140
∆ 44

Third Image: 1-2-3-4 Pull from 7-29-07
Starting IAT 102
Finish IAT, 3rd gear 119
Finish IAT, 4th gear 127
∆ 1-3 17
∆ 1-4 25





Items of interest:
*Last pic has TPS data, this data did not exist with the earlier runs due to lack of tps sensor.
*Note difference in coolant temps (red line on bottom graph of each) are higher and more erradic on the last pic. This must be because I have no undertray or shrouding.
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Old 07-29-2007, 04:54 PM   #8
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What's CLT again?
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Old 07-29-2007, 05:22 PM   #9
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coolant temp
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Old 07-29-2007, 05:26 PM   #10
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thanks
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Old 07-29-2007, 08:34 PM   #11
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That's similar to the air temp rise I was seeing (>25c thru multiple gears). I've cut that in half by doubling the IC size. Doesn't this IC have better frontal exposure than the prior? Is the gap behind it to the condenser the same as prior? That coolant temp rise is very minor... perhaps it's the big gap behind it? I followed the school of thought to keep everything sandwiched and sealed up... but I think that also encourages heat soak from the rad when the air isn't flowing through, but helps at speed.

What's the air temp compensation regimen for MS? I know the Link is fairly aggressive as it comes from FM, but nobody every messes with - they just upgrade the IC.
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Old 07-29-2007, 08:56 PM   #12
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This IC is has more surface area and more volume than the old. It's wider too. And the runners are taller, considering that my last was 8" tall but the entry and exit were single sided, so that's like 2 x 4" channels.

The last was right against the condensor. This one is a couple inches forward of the condensor. Nothing else was touched. I think just getting an undertray and radiator top plate installed will control temps better.

The MS does have compensations for intake temp. It can reduce timing advance and/or reduce boost through active control of the boost solenoid. The user has full control over these features, including the point where they activate and how agressively they cut.

But with this bigger IC alone my AIT has gone down 40% through boosted runs. So I'll re install my radiator top plate since that's simple, and deal with the undertray situation after I clean up the install some.
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Old 07-29-2007, 10:50 PM   #13
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I really need to get my setup running and my shrouds/undertray together. I'd love to contribute some IAT data to all of this. I'm wondering if mine will show more(or not) on a roadcourse though, since its designed for more aggressive boosting and abuse.

Looks good btw
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Old 07-31-2007, 12:41 AM   #14
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Off topic but why the bra? My friend ended up getting his front end very scratched by dirt that would catch under it.
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Old 07-31-2007, 12:48 AM   #15
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car was owned previously by a woman who couldn't drive to save her life. so she brought it to maaco for a cheap spray job, and it doesn't look like they did any body or prep work. suffice to say the car looks better with the bra on than without. I don't care if the bra screws up the bumper any further. I have a spare in good shape, and one day the whole thing will get a real repaint.
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Old 07-31-2007, 10:16 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
...suffice to say <insert her name here> looks better with the bra on than without...
I think Ben could write madlibs. My nose suffers from the same disease... tho not as severe, it's very susceptible to debris, which cause chips in the paint.
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Old 07-31-2007, 10:57 AM   #17
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i spray painted mine.
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Old 08-03-2007, 12:33 AM   #18
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lol I have rock chips and I dont care.

R-compounds + cars + gravel at the track= battle scars on the nose and bonnet
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Old 08-08-2007, 09:00 AM   #19
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Those pics just helped me alot, thanx Ben
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Old 09-16-2007, 10:08 AM   #20
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One newer pic showing some t-clamps
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