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power, lost or found?

 
Old 03-01-2015, 06:29 PM
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It seems to me there is a an area in the operation of a turbo motor that we don't know much about. Perhaps its only me that is in the dark, (run with that as you like), but I think it would be interesting to see what happens when a turbo motor is run to the redline with the boost gauge needle pointing at absolutely zero.

Have any of you comedians tried that? I think I will at the next opportunity.

There is no real performance value to find here, or so I suppose, but maybe an explanation of where some did//did not come from.

If one of you jokers has the opportunity try that in the near future, please offer up a report.

corky
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Old 03-01-2015, 07:36 PM
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You're referring to an N/A engine? I'm very confused by the purpose of your post.
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Old 03-01-2015, 07:48 PM
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So if I understand correctly the data you are interested in would be a dyno plot showing the motor running at 100kpa load all the way to redline?

Would you want instrumentation of shaft speed on the turbo?

Edit:

I'm confused as well as to what exactly you are trying to measure.
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Old 03-01-2015, 07:49 PM
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^^ I ****umed that he was actually talking about a theoretical condition on a turbo engine, where the engine is running at redline, but it is not experiencing any boost. How you arrived at a such a condition in the first place would be interesting, but it would then, in a sense, seem like just a question about flow. Would we assume the waste gate be wide open, along with the BOV, to arrive at this unique condition? Are the wheels even on the ground?


EDIT: Ok, I see he said "run to redline" . . . but I still don't get it.
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Old 03-01-2015, 07:54 PM
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Obviously with throttle modulation we can maintain 100kpa at redline and measure the torque being produced in that condition. I'm not seeing what Corky is getting at, though, how that information is useful. Information has to have a context to be useful. I'm not seeing the context. What could be changed to improve something? I'm not grokking whatever the something that could be improved is.
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Old 03-01-2015, 08:08 PM
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Corky, I'm not seeing what you're saying, know what I'm sayin? If I ask if you're talking about N/A, and you say "no", then I might think you mean the "know" in "know what I'm sayin", know what I'm sayin?
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Old 03-01-2015, 08:18 PM
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He's saying he wants to see a dynograph of someones car where target boost was zero for the whole rev range. No one has a wastegate large enough to do that, but we know from other dyno's that even when a turbo motor hasnt started building boost yet it will still be making more power than its N/A brother.
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Old 03-01-2015, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
He's saying he wants to see a dynograph of someones car where target boost was zero for the whole rev range. No one has a wastegate large enough to do that, but we know from other dyno's that even when a turbo motor hasnt started building boost yet it will still be making more power than its N/A brother.
Just want to make sure I'm tracking here --

This is because even before building positive boost, the turbo engine isn't fighting a vacuum (or as much of a vacuum) like the N/A engine, right?
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Old 03-01-2015, 08:51 PM
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So let's prove that volumetric efficiency is increased by a turbo charger, even when we already know that volumetric efficiency is increased by a turbo charger.
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Old 03-01-2015, 08:54 PM
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You guys are thinking about this too much.

He's clearly sun-downing.
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Old 03-01-2015, 09:28 PM
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He does realize 18 is a mod now right?

Last edited by williams805; 03-01-2015 at 10:09 PM.
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Old 03-01-2015, 09:41 PM
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I was going to respond, but just like the other thread he likely already forgot he made this thread, so this will be a 1 sided conversation.

I have done this before, though not exactly like the scenario he's discussing (the car still managed to make a teensy weensy amount of boost up top due to creep). Before it would make pressure, the car was still faster with the turbo at 100kpa because while not making pressure it is still flowing air and "helping" the engine breathe and overcoming the hotside restrictions.

Good day Mr. Bell
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Old 03-01-2015, 09:54 PM
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Ah yes...the moment I was waiting for.
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Old 03-02-2015, 01:12 AM
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Maybe I'm just optimistic, but maybe he wishes to compare N/A performance to find what's worth investing in? ebay log vs the tubular matched external gate or whatever. (More examples here)

Kinda a lot of variables to be comparing if I'm on the same page. My car wouldn't comply in current form for the same reason as Vlad.
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Old 03-02-2015, 01:36 AM
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Nah. A better flowing manifold is a better flowing manifold, period.

Corky please enlighten us as to the nature of your investigation. There is no butthole factor in my request.
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Old 03-02-2015, 04:46 PM
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Sounds like a motor with air assist?

Why not do 1psi with a teeny tiny trubo, Instant spool & consistent through red line?
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Old 03-03-2015, 10:26 PM
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The question is are we talking wastegate wide open, or throttle holding the boost back?
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Old 03-04-2015, 12:45 AM
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You guys are over thinking this. Pull off the intake piping from the turbo to the throttle body. Boom, 100kpa at redline full throttle and a turbo. No need for BOV or wastegates.
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Old 03-04-2015, 12:48 AM
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But that kills off any "pre-boost" the turbo might be making, and eliminates any restrictions in the intake that might be masked by boost...

At least if I understand the question correctly. The suspense is killing me, can we get clarification now!!
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Old 03-04-2015, 01:41 AM
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This thread needs less talk and more kitten pics.
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