I'm going to go buy a horse because internal combustion engines are just way too complicated and frustrating to tune.

Fuck man, that's the scariest 1hp I can possibly imagine. Of course you will be running ALLOFIT all the time

Well, I bought an MS2E, and I'll be picking up my wideband and boost gauge this weekend. I'm leaning towards the Begi-S kit now.. seems to be all the same high-quality stuff, but for about $1000 less, which is nifty.

I'm planning on tuning N/A, then throwing the Begi-S kit in, tuning with that, then when I get hungry I can go injectors and I/C and go for a bit more power.. then a bit more.. then do meth... err, i mean install meth injection, and go a bit more power... or whatever.

From Matt Crammer:

Two we've often worked with in the Atlanta area are Balanced Performance and Forged Performance

DNM

I agree with the earlier post made, the real problem lies in that most folks want to pile more and more power expectations on a device that isn't really intended to push pass 6-8 psi.

And I have seen it...

Voodoo box+adjustable fpr+supra injectors+msd...

Lol, that is simply too much crap and too many points of failure...

Sounds like you don't know how to tune. Don't blame the ECU because of your failures--that's not fair.

I say this as a person who's owned 1 miata.


voodoo is a great solution for someone with a turbo kit that wants to run less power than my farts can dyno.

If your farts can turn a drum showbusiness is your calling - however, it's a hard act to sell because of the smell.

You've obviously never experience a brain fart.

My short term memory is worse th.... Fk what was I going to say.

True, I never could alter the maps, I don't know how to tune, lol. Do you guys have instructions available for tuning megasquirts with a wide band, cause I would definitely give it shot.

I actually found the parts with the maps to be the easy stuff with the MS (and TunerStudio of course) as I tend to be very visual. The hard part for me was figuring out what all the other functions were that were fucking with me and adjusting things in the background and fighting TS while I was trying to get a solid fuel map put together. Too many acronyms and too many functions that had been renamed and moved around in the interface. I spent over a week trying to find the GAIR table only to learn later that it didn't exist in my DIYPNP. That's what'll drive you nuts with the MS. So many generations with so many different settings makes finding a guide that applies to your unit a real challenge.

There is not only numerous manuals and write ups, but even a complete forum dedicated to this exact thing.

And before you ask: yes it absolutely requires quite a bit more effort on your part than opening a booklet that tells you how to turn 3 knobs and you're done. That last part is what turns people like you off, and they just reject the whole thing, and resort to crappy band aids invented in the 80's before people took fuel injection seriously. But if I'm putting parts on my car, I want to make sure they're at least as new as the car itself and not old outdated mediocre parts.

If you cant find a manual on MS then you have different problems.

I'm in the exact same spot as the OP, doing lots of research, reading everything I can get my hands on right down to the recommended books, and I'm still unclear on this point:

Is a piggyback ECU like the Voodoo box the only way to pass emissions?

I've got cash burning a hole in my pocket and I've decided on the FM kit, and I'd like to run MSPNP with it. But, I have to pass emissions every March.

Okay so I had looked on the manufacturer's website and didn't see the answer, but then a simple Google search of the same question returned this:

"Is the MSPNP emissions legal? Does it return OBD2 codes?

The MSPNP is sold for competition use on race tracks, autocross, drag strips, off road courses, and things that otherwise don't get driven on public roads. Although a correctly tuned MSPNP is capable of relatively low tailpipe readings, a badly tuned one can send emissions through the roof. Consequently, installing one on a street car does not meet Federal emissions rules. The MSPNP also does not return OBD2 codes, either. If you have to return your race car to street duty, you've got to unplug the MSPNP and go back to the stock ECU to stay street legal."

So, those of you that are passing emissions every year with a standalone, are you yanking out your ECU and putting the stock one back in before emissions testing?

Yes the laws are too far behind. You could be running even an electric vehicle.. if that obd2 scan isnt working you automatically fail. Not sure what/ if any states do the sniffer test only any more.

Few years ago the prius couldnt pass emissions because its made to turn off the engine and run on electric at idle the gasoline engine would turn off and fail emissions.

The answer is related to your state location and just how they test.

My home state of Tennessee uses a sniffer in the tailpipe and an OBDII plug under the dash. It looks like I'd have to plan to swap back to stock every year, or be happy with the Voodoo.

Thanks for the intel guys, I'll do some more research about the difficulties involved in a stock-swap and then make a decision. Right now I'm thinking I don't want to mess with the annual hassle, and the Voodoo box is looking pretty good (to a rookie anyway).

That's the catch: it ONLY looks good to a rookie. Once you know what you're doing, you'll realize why we don't like them

This statement is of course acedemic but if I could run a voodoo as part of a turbo kit and pass emissions, I'd happily buy one.

But I'd still pull it and run some flavor of MS or AEM for the other 729 days between checks.

Sadly many people will take a shitty running car ready to pop at any moment just so they dont have to do an hr of extra work per year or 2.

Maybe that's true of some people, I wouldn't know. If it's only a couple hours of work per year to revert back to an emissions-passable condition, then I'll run a standalone. Let the research continue . . . I'll make a decision soon. My car's due for re-registration in March, so I'll pull the trigger the day after I renew.

If you do everything right, it really is no more than about a couple hours

My car passes yearly emissions and mechanical inspections (and very strict inspections at that) with no problems.
Exhaust gas values are excellent, and brake testing is a joke with my larger brakes.
As for the supercharged engine, my saving grace is the fact that there are very few MX-5s over here, and the techs usually think everything under the hood is stock. I do not have brand names on anything I have installed under the hood.
The only "warning" I have received to date is about my Bi-Xenon headlight conversion. They are miffed about the fact that the headlights do not have automatic height compensation.

Put it this way.... would you rather endure 1 day of annoyance in order to enjoy 364 days of driving bliss?

Or enjoy 1 day of easy smog testing as a payoff for 364 days of annoyance?

After doing it for whatever time it takes me roughly an hr to switch back and forth.

30-40 mins on the injectors + the maf, 2-3 mins on the bov, 10 seconds on the wastegate, 10 mins to fuck around under the dash switching ecu plugs, and thats about an hr.

Not to thread-jack any more than I already did, but I'll give an update on my decision: I pulled the trigger on a Voodoo II, WBO2 and Happy Meal from clutch from FM. Should have it on Thursday and will start the install in a few weeks when I can take some time off work, and after I've registered the car for another year.

I figure I'll get comfortable with this "simple" setup and then move up to better engine management, bigger injectors, more boost etc, as I gain experience. I know this isn't the cheapest way to do it, but that's how I'm doing it.

Hopefully u dont pop the motor on the voodoo running 13 afr at 8 psi.

Yeah you'll be the first one I tell when I do :)

If you're running 13 AFR, you're running too much boost. It's simple. The ability of the stock injectors to deliver fuel is your boost limit. The actual PSI varies depending on things like the exhaust being used, the year of the engine and the turbo size.

I ran the Voodoo on my street (and occasional track) Miata for years. Worked fine, no hassles. It's a good option if you just want to install and forget, which is what it's intended for. Not everyone wants to deal with things like being in charge of cold start, for example. In a normal install, it should have lots of margin for error. It's not a good option if you're trying to build a beast.

If people are popping engines with the Voodoo, we're not hearing about it. I can't think of one offhand. The nice thing about most Miata owners is that if you tell them to only run X psi, they'll run X psi. When we sold parts for Proteges, if we said X psi they'd just keep turning it up until one of the rods made a break for freedom...

That was about... 4psi, right? You guys were doing stuff for the FS-DE powered cars? ;)

They seemed to be safe up to 6. But 6.1 would take 'em out. Not a great turbo engine.

Which is about 6 psi +- 1/2psi. I know the voodoo is well designed but 180WHP at 6 psi?

It all depends on what year the car is. The injectors peak out at 180 rwhp on an NA8, you can run whatever boost it takes to get there. If you're seeing 13:1, you're trying to push past 180 rwhp.

You mean 180 crank?

Fuel Injector Calculator from WitchHunter Performance

Mine and everybody elses numbers confirm the stock 245cc injectors run out of fuel at 160whp which also agrees with the above calculator.

My personal results showed steady 11.8 till 6.2k rpm and then started increasing going up to 12.3 by redline at 6 psi.

Hard to argue with "everybody else" and random websites. Boost and power are not the same thing, you can't use them interchangeably unless you're keeping everything else constant.

Most importantly, it's been our experience that the cars are running safely, both on our dyno and in the real world. As I said, I don't know of any engine failures with Voodoo turbos despite the gloom here. We know it's not for everyone, which is why we offer the Hydra-powered FM II and the no-electronics options for people who want to use a different engine management. I talk to Miata owners of all sorts every day, and the Voodoo fills a very important role for a lot of owners.

Eh, You aren't going to hear from people that run the voodoo box now because the majority don't want to erupt the whiney backlash. Everyone knows by not it's not the most optimum due to it's limitations, but it is simple and it works... Not everyone is trying to squeeze every nag out of their motor. Some people simply just want their turbo car on the road, are transitioning from a basic setup, are on a budget, or don't enjoy spending hours dealing with tuning and are complacent with stupid simplicity. If you are running low boost I don't see what the big deal is. Some people seem to forget that not too long ago, options weren't as prophetic as they are now.

That's mainly it, really. When compared to the dinasour tuning solutions of the early 2000's, this is a very capable little gadget.

Problem is, now its '14 and the 1337 regulars that are MT will always tell you to get the latest and greatest, because why not ;)

I agree wholeheartedly.

It's just like cellphones. I have a friend that has had all the new stuff and chooses to go back to a blackberry because it's simple. People make fun of him because he likes buttons, avoids touch screens, and pays $40 a month.

*Tucks away blackberry*

:giggle:

Dont get me wrong, i'd be glad to not have to mess around with my standalone.. Especially messin around with cold start at 2F however i've yet to see a graph of a piggy back that keeps the afrs at 11.7 +-.2 tolerance.

Fixed.