Why Hate on BEGI
 

So I have noticed more than a few people steering others away from BEGI kits. I am just wondering why that is. Is it simply that there is more power or better quality parts to be had for a lower cost? Whenever I search for this topic I just find posts mentioning BEGI and people being pointed towards MK Turbo and other places. I am interested in being CARB legal but should I really even care? Is it really time consuming to remove my turbo gear and dump the stock ecu back and exhaust back in? Please enlighten me.

From what i understand, the actual CARB legal kits haven't been sold for a long time.

Well I guess it's time to call stephanie. They are on the bell tuning website.

I suggest you ask point blank if she's had the revised kits certified. And be prepared for a vague answer.

Having a CARB legal kit is well worth your time if you value it.

Call Bell Tuning and get an estimate.

Just got off the phone with her. She said told me that everything she sells in that kit is CARB legal. I guess the big factor is no end user tune ability unless i did a reflash and a MS on top of that.

You should take a look at the mk Turbo kits, really nice little kit there.:party:

I did look at the MK and I think its awesome. The only thing holding me back is CARB.

I read your post I'm just giving you a hard time. I too have no love for carb hassles

So the kits that Bell has certified are:

- for 90-97, the "Bell system IV". It's certified with a rising rate fuel pressure regulator, not any kind of aftermarket electronic control. This works, but it's going to cost you a lot of power and drivability compared to using a real ECU.

- for 99 (99 only, not 2000 or any other NB), the kit that was sold as an "FM2". This kit was certified with a Link piggyback controlling 2 aux injectors in the throttle body, and the CA emissions pre-cat mounted behind the turbo. To make room for the pre-cat the turbo needs to be mounted further forwards, which mens everything that attaches to the turbo is different from the usual kits. Different manifold, different downpipe, different intake, different intercooler plumbing. I actually owned one of these.

They don't make the 99 manifold any more, so it's impossible to mount the pre-cat and without that it's not legal. Theoretically the EO is probably legit for a 49-state 1999 Miata that's been imported into CA after it was sold in some other state, but most the cars you'll find in CA aren't those. You'd also need to ignore the fueling portion of the EO and find some other kind of piggyback solution.

--Ian

FYI, here's what the CA 2-cat kit looks like when installed:

https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-...hWdxpXV-X2.jpg

--Ian

This.

You might be able to sneak by a BEGI setup by a dumb CARB guy, but one on point would probably figure it out.

From:

http://arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermkt/de...eo/D-349-1.pdf

Stephine claims that their current "ignition timing retard device" is a Megasquirt.

While I think that is sketchy as hell, the SMOG tech is not going to care if there is a CARB E.O. tag.

So I asked her about that and she said the timing retard device is the Xede, not the megasquirt and that the Xede was part of the CARB certifired kit. She also mentioned an ecu reflash option that there is no method of detection for on the CARB end. FYI: I have a 99 model 49 state federal.

The thing is that the hardware isn't the same hardware that's on the CARB EO. That's the main issue.

The ecu reflash isn't reversible.

Ah, a 96+ ODBII car, then yeah they use an Xede. OBDI gets the MS.

I believe there is some provision for vendors to be able to update their kits with minor revisions without needing to re-certify the whole thing. For example, the 2-injector throttle body setup had some fuel consistency issues, so they updated it to a 4-injector setup (bungs welded into the intake manifold, new fuel rail) and I successfully smogged it under that EO. This wasn't a random smog guy either, the first 4 or 5 shops I went to wouldn't touch the car, so I wound up smogging it at a referee station.

I have no idea if substituting an Xede for a Link is fully legit under the rules, but it's possible. If you've got a 49-state car, then the BEGI kit is probably the closest thing you'll find to a CARB-legal turbo kit.

So after that you have the other BEGI issues to consider. The experiences of many people on this forum (including myself) is that if you order a kit from BEGI you should expect it to be late, incomplete, poorly fitting (to the point of needing a grinder to get every single hard part to fit), and require warranty replacement of numerous components.

--Ian

Has anyone, ever, ordered any kit from begi, AND received it, AND on time, AND everything was there, AND it all fit right away. Ever?

Like seriously. Ever.

Also, has anyone ever heard Stephanie ever, in her whole lifetime, admit to any mistakes and not blame someone else for it? Ever?

OP, no more new thread making for you. You need to read/learn, this isn't facebook, we don't spoon feed. Literally a decade worth of threads with terrible begi experiences all over this forum. No one's gonna compile them all for you.

And there is the answer I was looking for. So they aren't reliable form a customer service stand point and one will enjoy all the problems that come with that. Thank you Ian.

I should charge more than MSRP for the BEGI kit i'm selling because the fitment issues have already been worked out. Think of it as an intensive handling charge.

You probably should!

You're not exaggerating either, if anything the decade estimate is conservative. I made a thread in 2007 crying about months long delays, missing parts, and wrong parts from my BEGI kit I bought. All my crying was met with pretty much the same "yeah... that's how BEGI does it" comments you see when people post the same threads now.

OK OK. You're right. I'll do a better job searching next time. FYI: I will not be going BEGI. Far too sketchy a track record. Thank you mt.net. I am converted. MS and and MK turbo kit are most likely to be in my future.

You should check out that mk Turbo thing.

Or a pre-vetted BEGI kit. ;)

Search for the title "My BEGI experience" much lol

Yeah. I read that. Made me decide against buying from them.

Having never owned a BEGI kit, but having conversed with Stephanie on the matter, my understanding is this:

The original CARB EO was issued on a kit built from parts which are no longer available. Over the years, they have a number of substitutions (and a few omissions) and continue to claim compliance under the original certificate.

If you buy a Bell kit, and you request the CARB compliant version, you will get a sticker which refers to an EO that was issued 17 years ago. It refers specifically to "two supplementary fuel injectors" which are no longer available from Bell, as well as an "ignition timing retard device" which is also no longer available but which, at last check (which was a few years ago), they were passing off the Xede as.

Based on my own personal experience of owning a turbocharged '92 Miata which was based on a Greddy turbo kit from which virtually no original parts except for the turbo and manifold (and sticker) remained, it is entirely possible to pass such a car. Your best bet is to try to find a small shop run by an old man in a crummy part of town, and you then roll the dice and take your chances.

And if you don’t and call Stephanie back about it, she will deny everything, blame you for any issues, and tell you to get lost. And when you share your experience on the forum, she will threaten to sue you. And when someone asks her in the future if they’ve ever had issues, she will say they never had issues and have a perfect track record, and any bad Publicity is completely false and fictional made up by competitors and haters.

It's all about that CARB-EO that they've got. Zero other options for turbos in California if you need/want that sticker.

I hate to toss this around, but it really isn't difficult to just find someone who will pass you regardless. I have a guy that, as long as it passes the test itself (be it obd2 port test or sniffer, or both) will pass you. He doesn't even charge me extra, not that I don't tip him a hundred extra bucks when I do my smog. It's how I passed my turbo insight several years ago, and how I plan on passing my supercharged Miata once it's up for smog as well. A co-worker at work also has a guy that charges 250 and will pass you without ever needing to see your car.

Its all fine, but they all get busted eventually. And then there's the time when a CHP pulls you over and you end up with a ticket that forces you to a SMOG REF. then you are screwed.

Not an issue if you behave on the road. I've known people that drive monsters and never get pulled over because they only unleash them at the track.

True.

And that also ignores the fact that a modern begi kit is not the same kit they got the EO for, and any competent smog shop (not to mention REF) will want nothing to do with it and fail you.

Seen by BAR :hatecat:

Kind of gives a new meaning to the term "crusher", doesn't it?

In order to pass inspection you are allowed to have the items listed on the EO, but nothing extra. If there is an approved item that is not installed on the car, they don't go hunting for it. The BTP Turbo kit still uses the important parts that have passed CARB inspection for the last 18 years. CARB did allow for a change in the cast manifold design, as long as it stayed a cast iron manifold, in the same location, with very similar dimensions. The CARB terms are very vague and do not specify x brand, y length, etc. That allows for some flexibility. It may not be the case with parts certified today. The burden has always been on us to only send the decal with approved parts. It does not say we have to use a specific size injector, an MSD ignition box, etc. Over the years, numerous cars have passed with an MSD box, J&S Knock sensor, Bipes ACU, and a link. All the OBDI Miatas pass with a MSPNP installed. The intercooler has gone from a tube and fin core with cast end tanks to a bar and plate core with sheet metal end tanks. It is still an intercooler. The downpipe has undergone three revisions as well. It went from a short downpipe with the IHI turbo, to a two piece set up with a casting, and then back to the current design. Cars have been passing inspection without that additional injector for over 10 years now. I know of three cars that passed CARB inspection this year with the new BTP kit - one with a MSPNP, and with an ECU Reflash/Rechip, and one Xede. This kit continues to pass inspection - with the older and newer parts.

As for lead times and such - everyone loves to hate on BEGI. I get it. Some of the reputation was deserved, much of it exaggerated, and the positive voices are not as loud as the naysayers. And hey, everything you read online and forums must be gospel, right?!?!? I am doing my very best to change perceptions & parts availability since BEGI has closed. Ironically, I just installed a kit for a customer that waited over 6 months for an FM kit. It had an oil fitting that broke and an oil line leaked at a crimp - but no one ever shares those stories. We have doubled our efforts to keep items in stock and lead times low. With the exception of a 94/97 downpipe, the S kit is in stock and can ship within 10 days. We are going to revise the BTP turbo kit a little to make it faster to ship and reduce lead times even more. The revision is about 50% complete and will be installed shortly. The more universal the part - the faster it is to produce and ship. MSM parts are usually in stock as well - except right now. We are at the mercy of material availability from our sources. Some of our materials used do not have alternate parts available so I am working on fixing that too. Since BEGI closed and BTP took over most parts, we have produced items differently to make them faster to produce. We have all aluminum water jet cut so that it only requires welding, ie. air boxes, heatshield, etc. Manifolds are CNC machined. All smaller items have been converted to CNC or redesigned to use a universal part. We have also limited the amount of customizing that one can do in order to ship parts faster as well. I know the battle is uphill to fix some of issues, but we are determined to make it happen. Our focus the last year has been to simplify, make easier and faster to produce, and stock inventory.
Stephanie

Ya know what's kinda awesome for the folks in California that want a current CARB-EO turbo kit for their Miatas?

Oh, that's right.
Bill and crew at FM finally did what I'm sure all the Techs had been begging for, for years.
Yup.

FM kits. Now with a CARB EO.

ZERO reason to have anything to do with BEGI now. ZERO.

PS. With the exception of their OG company name from like, 25+ or even 30 years ago (Dealer Alternative, Inc.) Flyin' Miata has done all of their business under one name. Period.
Can the folks at BEGI say that?

Why change names?
To avoid the horror tales found with Internet searches.

BEGI didn't change names. It closed. If you are referring to changing the engineering to experimental in the business name, that is a different story and dictated by the State of Texas. FM used to go by Dealer Alternative, so I am not sure what your point was. Both companies used two different names at some point. But, BEGI is now closed and has been for almost a year.

Corky wanted to do his own thing and so did I. He kept the FMUs & AO Turbo kit and I took all the other parts. Bell Tuning & Performance is a completely separate company with some of the old BEGI designed parts. We have discontinued some parts, changed some parts, and doing some new parts. New parts will be slightly slower coming out as I see fixing some of the old parts has a higher priority. The are good parts and have value over others - otherwise I would not have invested the time and expense to keep them around.
Stephanie