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Old 10-12-2017, 04:58 PM   #1
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Default Why Hate on BEGI

So I have noticed more than a few people steering others away from BEGI kits. I am just wondering why that is. Is it simply that there is more power or better quality parts to be had for a lower cost? Whenever I search for this topic I just find posts mentioning BEGI and people being pointed towards MK Turbo and other places. I am interested in being CARB legal but should I really even care? Is it really time consuming to remove my turbo gear and dump the stock ecu back and exhaust back in? Please enlighten me.

Last edited by Michael Chandler; 10-12-2017 at 06:46 PM.
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Old 10-12-2017, 05:01 PM   #2
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From what i understand, the actual CARB legal kits haven't been sold for a long time.
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Old 10-12-2017, 05:05 PM   #3
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Well I guess it's time to call stephanie. They are on the bell tuning website.
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Old 10-12-2017, 05:06 PM   #4
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I suggest you ask point blank if she's had the revised kits certified. And be prepared for a vague answer.
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Old 10-12-2017, 05:12 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Chandler View Post
So I have noticed more than a few people steering away from BEGI kits. I am just wondering why that is? Is it simply that there is more power or better quality parts to be had for a lower cost? Whenever I search for this topic I just find posts mentioning BEGI and people being pointed towards MK Turbo and other places. I am interested in being CARB legal but should I really even care? Is it really time consuming to remove my turbo gear and dump the stock ecu back and exhaust back in? Please enlighten me.
Having a CARB legal kit is well worth your time if you value it.

Call Bell Tuning and get an estimate.
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Old 10-12-2017, 05:12 PM   #6
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Just got off the phone with her. She said told me that everything she sells in that kit is CARB legal. I guess the big factor is no end user tune ability unless i did a reflash and a MS on top of that.
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Old 10-12-2017, 05:14 PM   #7
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You should take a look at the mk Turbo kits, really nice little kit there.
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Old 10-12-2017, 05:15 PM   #8
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I did look at the MK and I think its awesome. The only thing holding me back is CARB.
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Old 10-12-2017, 05:17 PM   #9
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I read your post I'm just giving you a hard time. I too have no love for carb hassles
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Old 10-12-2017, 05:21 PM   #10
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So the kits that Bell has certified are:

- for 90-97, the "Bell system IV". It's certified with a rising rate fuel pressure regulator, not any kind of aftermarket electronic control. This works, but it's going to cost you a lot of power and drivability compared to using a real ECU.

- for 99 (99 only, not 2000 or any other NB), the kit that was sold as an "FM2". This kit was certified with a Link piggyback controlling 2 aux injectors in the throttle body, and the CA emissions pre-cat mounted behind the turbo. To make room for the pre-cat the turbo needs to be mounted further forwards, which mens everything that attaches to the turbo is different from the usual kits. Different manifold, different downpipe, different intake, different intercooler plumbing. I actually owned one of these.

They don't make the 99 manifold any more, so it's impossible to mount the pre-cat and without that it's not legal. Theoretically the EO is probably legit for a 49-state 1999 Miata that's been imported into CA after it was sold in some other state, but most the cars you'll find in CA aren't those. You'd also need to ignore the fueling portion of the EO and find some other kind of piggyback solution.

--Ian
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Old 10-12-2017, 05:32 PM   #11
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FYI, here's what the CA 2-cat kit looks like when installed:



--Ian
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Old 10-12-2017, 05:33 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by codrus View Post
So the kits that Bell has certified are:

- for 90-97, the "Bell system IV". It's certified with a rising rate fuel pressure regulator, not any kind of aftermarket electronic control. This works, but it's going to cost you a lot of power and drivability compared to using a real ECU.

- for 99 (99 only, not 2000 or any other NB), the kit that was sold as an "FM2". This kit was certified with a Link piggyback controlling 2 aux injectors in the throttle body, and the CA emissions pre-cat mounted behind the turbo. To make room for the pre-cat the turbo needs to be mounted further forwards, which mens everything that attaches to the turbo is different from the usual kits. Different manifold, different downpipe, different intake, different intercooler plumbing. I actually owned one of these.

They don't make the 99 manifold any more, so it's impossible to mount the pre-cat and without that it's not legal. Theoretically the EO is probably legit for a 49-state 1999 Miata that's been imported into CA after it was sold in some other state, but most the cars you'll find in CA aren't those. You'd also need to ignore the fueling portion of the EO and find some other kind of piggyback solution.

--Ian
This.

You might be able to sneak by a BEGI setup by a dumb CARB guy, but one on point would probably figure it out.
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Old 10-12-2017, 05:35 PM   #13
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From:

http://arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermkt/de...eo/D-349-1.pdf

Quote:
The Mazda Turbocharger Kit includes the following: Garrett turbocharger, 10 psi. maximum boost, high flow fuel pump, intercooler (optional), two supplementary fuel injectors, fuel regulator designed to raise the fuel pressure as a function of boost pressure, open element air cleaner, ignition timing retard device, cast iron exhaust manifold, and exhaust connecting pipe. The supplementary fuel injectors are placed in an air tube just prior to the throttle body and are controlled by a boost pressure actuated electronic circuit. The manufacturer recommends 92 octane fuel.
Stephine claims that their current "ignition timing retard device" is a Megasquirt.

While I think that is sketchy as hell, the SMOG tech is not going to care if there is a CARB E.O. tag.
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Old 10-12-2017, 05:41 PM   #14
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So I asked her about that and she said the timing retard device is the Xede, not the megasquirt and that the Xede was part of the CARB certifired kit. She also mentioned an ecu reflash option that there is no method of detection for on the CARB end. FYI: I have a 99 model 49 state federal.
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Old 10-12-2017, 05:43 PM   #15
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The thing is that the hardware isn't the same hardware that's on the CARB EO. That's the main issue.

The ecu reflash isn't reversible.
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Old 10-12-2017, 05:49 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Chandler View Post
So I asked her about that and she said the timing retard device is the Xede, not the megasquirt and that the Xede was part of the CARB certifired kit. She also mentioned an ecu reflash option that there is no method of detection for on the CARB end. FYI: I have a 99 model 49 state federal.
Ah, a 96+ ODBII car, then yeah they use an Xede. OBDI gets the MS.
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Old 10-12-2017, 05:53 PM   #17
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I believe there is some provision for vendors to be able to update their kits with minor revisions without needing to re-certify the whole thing. For example, the 2-injector throttle body setup had some fuel consistency issues, so they updated it to a 4-injector setup (bungs welded into the intake manifold, new fuel rail) and I successfully smogged it under that EO. This wasn't a random smog guy either, the first 4 or 5 shops I went to wouldn't touch the car, so I wound up smogging it at a referee station.

I have no idea if substituting an Xede for a Link is fully legit under the rules, but it's possible. If you've got a 49-state car, then the BEGI kit is probably the closest thing you'll find to a CARB-legal turbo kit.

So after that you have the other BEGI issues to consider. The experiences of many people on this forum (including myself) is that if you order a kit from BEGI you should expect it to be late, incomplete, poorly fitting (to the point of needing a grinder to get every single hard part to fit), and require warranty replacement of numerous components.

--Ian
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Old 10-12-2017, 06:36 PM   #18
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Has anyone, ever, ordered any kit from begi, AND received it, AND on time, AND everything was there, AND it all fit right away. Ever?

Like seriously. Ever.

Also, has anyone ever heard Stephanie ever, in her whole lifetime, admit to any mistakes and not blame someone else for it? Ever?

OP, no more new thread making for you. You need to read/learn, this isn't facebook, we don't spoon feed. Literally a decade worth of threads with terrible begi experiences all over this forum. No one's gonna compile them all for you.
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Old 10-12-2017, 06:44 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by codrus View Post
I believe there is some provision for vendors to be able to update their kits with minor revisions without needing to re-certify the whole thing. For example, the 2-injector throttle body setup had some fuel consistency issues, so they updated it to a 4-injector setup (bungs welded into the intake manifold, new fuel rail) and I successfully smogged it under that EO. This wasn't a random smog guy either, the first 4 or 5 shops I went to wouldn't touch the car, so I wound up smogging it at a referee station.

I have no idea if substituting an Xede for a Link is fully legit under the rules, but it's possible. If you've got a 49-state car, then the BEGI kit is probably the closest thing you'll find to a CARB-legal turbo kit.

So after that you have the other BEGI issues to consider. The experiences of many people on this forum (including myself) is that if you order a kit from BEGI you should expect it to be late, incomplete, poorly fitting (to the point of needing a grinder to get every single hard part to fit), and require warranty replacement of numerous components.

--Ian
And there is the answer I was looking for. So they aren't reliable form a customer service stand point and one will enjoy all the problems that come with that. Thank you Ian.
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Old 10-12-2017, 06:47 PM   #20
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I should charge more than MSRP for the BEGI kit i'm selling because the fitment issues have already been worked out. Think of it as an intensive handling charge.
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