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Old 10-10-2014, 04:29 PM   #21
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Well. The SM race just finished up... pretty exciting stuff.
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Old 10-10-2014, 08:21 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
Clif Notes:

Blueprinted
Forged piston/rods
11.0:1
.425 lift cams
OEM TB & manifold
exhaust free
ignition free
spec race gas (no magic gas)
wet sump
+ you can upgrade the valve train but valves must be stock. No porting other than 1" of port matching at the head/manifold junctions. ECU is open as well as fuel system. Valve jobs are open but you have to use stock valve seats, valves and valve stems. No rule on rev limit.

Basically I/H/E, ecu, 11:1 compression and relatively big cams.

Supposedly Drago's Runoffs motor makes/made 190-195 hp. Not sure if crank or wheel horsepowers. Also not sure what he revs to to make that power, but it's high enough that the motors are lucky to last a season. He told me it would be $12-13k to buy a copy of his motor from his "builder".
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Old 10-10-2014, 08:30 PM   #23
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+ you can upgrade the valve train but valves must be stock. No porting other than 1" of port matching at the head/manifold junctions. ECU is open as well as fuel system. Valve jobs are open but you have to use stock valve seats, valves and valve stems. No rule on rev limit.

Basically I/H/E, ecu, 11:1 compression and relatively big cams.

Supposedly Drago's Runoffs motor makes/made 190-195 hp. Not sure if crank or wheel horsepowers. Also not sure what he revs to to make that power, but it's high enough that the motors are lucky to last a season. He told me it would be $12-13k to buy a copy of his motor from his "builder".
195whp Dynojet but he went through 2-3 in testing and detuned for nats. We got to just over 180 when ours went boom. The best 1.6 STL car has ~168whp. Our last minute thrown together car is considerably below that.
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Old 10-10-2014, 10:37 PM   #24
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BTW the STL race is at 8:30AM PST (ie lunchtime on the east coast).

You can watch the race live here ---> Runoffs - STU/T3 Race - SCCA
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Old 10-11-2014, 12:27 PM   #25
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Fog delay...it looks like visibility is about nill right now. I'm guessing at least a 30 min delay.
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Old 10-11-2014, 12:55 PM   #26
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While we expected the fog, I don't think it plays into our favor. Being down a bit on power but lighter and easier on tires, we need heat. The better for the more powerful fwd cars to burn up their tires by mid race.

I'm hearing rumblings that the A7 is a game changer. Enough faster than the R1-S to be a make or break decision for most teams. The Jacksons have a relationship with BFG so they will stay the course. I'll wait for controlled test results to offer an opinion myself. Hard to imagine a DOT tire significantly faster than the R1-S which itself feels about the same as the equivalent sized R80 Hoosier slick.
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Old 10-11-2014, 02:56 PM   #27
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We lost the engine. Not sure what the cause was. Congrats to Ira for the STL win.
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Old 10-14-2014, 11:37 AM   #28
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Old 10-14-2014, 03:19 PM   #29
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Shitty clickbait article, just like everything else they've published in the last two years. The issue is far more nuanced than that.
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Old 10-14-2014, 03:47 PM   #30
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Shitty clickbait article, just like everything else they've published in the last two years. The issue is far more nuanced than that.
Yup. Poorly written rules, resourceful racers. It's pretty clear that almost no racer or builder involved had any intention of skirting the rules.

My guess is that next year those heads will be officially legal.

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Old 10-14-2014, 05:00 PM   #31
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Shitty clickbait article, just like everything else they've published in the last two years. The issue is far more nuanced than that.
Aww, I know Stef, she means well... to be fair, she did link to the very good thread over at mazdaracers.


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Yup. Poorly written rules, resourceful racers. It's pretty clear that almost on racer or builder involved had any intention of skirting the rules.

My guess is that next year those heads will be officially legal.
I feel bad for some of the racers, I think they honestly thought they were getting legal motors. The builders, well, it seems like they were aware of the ambiguous rules (and in some cases, even helped to write them) and decided to take the "least conservative" route, which seems like an interesting decision. It does seem like the push is for the rules to change to make the heads legal, which is a strange direction to go in, I think.

I'm hoping that the heads are made illegal and we have a flood of "nice, low usage" pro-SM heads available to us...

robert
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Old 10-14-2014, 07:58 PM   #32
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Yup. Poorly written rules, resourceful racers. It's pretty clear that almost no racer or builder involved had any intention of skirting the rules.
They rule (s) in question are to vague IMHO. They also conflict with another rule. I feel like SCCA blew it on many of the DQ's.


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My guess is that next year those heads will be officially legal.
Since SCCA kept all those heads they will not see the light of day again. I don't quite get that since they have good use elsewhere.
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Old 10-15-2014, 01:41 PM   #33
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Since SCCA kept all those heads they will not see the light of day again. I don't quite get that since they have good use elsewhere.

umm.. if every single head inspected was noncompliant, do you really think that it was only those 6? I'll bet more than half the field had the plunge cut "deburred". Numbers being spouted are near 1000 heads have that modification. I expect the rules will be changed to allow those heads to be legal again, and then returned to their respective owners.
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Old 10-16-2014, 03:37 PM   #34
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While a shitty click-bait article, it's still hilarious and is the new Exhibit A as to why running Spec Miata if your name isn't Jim Drago is a proper-nouned Bad Idea.
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Old 10-16-2014, 03:54 PM   #35
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While a shitty click-bait article, it's still hilarious and is the new Exhibit A as to why running Spec Miata if your name isn't Jim Drago is a proper-nouned Bad Idea.
I guess it is all in what your goal is. Lots and lots of people have lots and lots of fun running SM all year long without worrying about what it will take to win a championship. This won't suddenly make their weekends any less fun, I'm guessing.

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Old 11-05-2014, 02:52 PM   #36
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Looks like there might be a "flood" of heads on the market soon. Got this in my email from Mazda.

"Only un-modified heads would be permitted for competition at the 2015 SCCA National Championship Runoffs."
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Old 11-05-2014, 02:53 PM   #37
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Haha, yeah, I hope that flood comes. I can't help thinking, "When is Mazda going to start producing new batches of heads for the SM folks?" Seems like they're getting harder to find these days. Maybe I'm just not looking in the right places.

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Old 11-05-2014, 05:18 PM   #38
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I have an unmolested 99 Miata head I will gladly trade for one of the good "Illegal" heads.
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Old 11-05-2014, 06:59 PM   #39
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mazda motorsports sent out a bulletin today discussing that matter. Looks like they are devising a weight ballast system to grandfather the heads in for competition next year. They also stated that these heads would not be legal for 2015 run-offs.

Seems like a lot of the details need to be hashed out. From the sounds of the open letter it sounded like mazda plus some industry pro's were going to be taking a long hard look at the spirit of the spec miata rules.
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Old 11-05-2014, 10:17 PM   #40
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The letter mentioned:
Quote:
TO: Spec Miata Participants

FR: SCCA, NASA and Mazda Spec Miata Leadership Team

RE: Class Intent, Direction and Regulations

DT: November 5, 2014



Spec Miata purpose and intent (SCCA General Competition Rules):

The Spec Miata (SM) class is intended to provide the membership with the opportunity to compete in low cost, production-based cars with limited modifications, suitable for racing competition.



The rules are intentionally designed to be more open than the Showroom Stock class but more restricted than the Improved Touring class.



Less than 15 years ago, the concept of Spec Miata was born. The essence of the class focused on a low cost, fun, competitive environment that was relatively easy to enter. If a participant found a good donor car, added safety equipment, a hardtop and a bolt-on kit of performance parts purchased through Mazdaspeed Motorsports Development, they would have equipment capable of racing at the front of the field.



Throughout the years, the class veered from the original intent and direction. The scope of the class has crept into something beyond its original intent. While the essence of the class may remain the same, in some respects, it has lost its way, pushing the definition of "limited modifications" and the notion of "low cost." Mazda, SCCA and NASA all agree that changes must be made for the long-term health of the class, regardless of which sanctioning body operates the races.



The 2014 SCCA National Championship Runoffs was a watershed moment in the history of the Spec Miata class. With so many cars found out of compliance at the front of the field, a working group was established by Mazda, SCCA and NASA leadership to evaluate not just cylinder head rules, but the purpose and long-term goal of the class overall. The group, established by SCCA President Lisa Noble, also includes John Doonan, Steve Sanders and Mike Allen (Mazdaspeed Motorsports Development), John Mueller (NASA), Tony Ave (SCCA Club Racing Board) and Robert Clarke (SCCA Pro Racing/SCCA Inc.).



The group met face-to-face at SCCA's offices in Topeka, Kansas October 30, 2014. Also attending in consultation were: Eric Prill (SCCA), John Bauer (SCCA), Jim Wheeler (SCCA Club Racing Board), Steve Knapp (Elite Engines) and Jim Stewart (Stewart Engines).



Long-term Goal of the working group:

For Spec Miata to be a healthy, growing and economical class across organizations, where a racer can be competitive utilizing a stock Mazda Miata that is enhanced with bolt-on performance parts acquired through Mazdaspeed Motorsports Development.



In achieving that goal, it is important that current participants not be disenfranchised and unreasonably burdened while still making the class attractive to individuals that have either left the class or not engaged in the class due to scope creep away from stock.



The most critical issue in conflict with the long-term goal is with regard to rules that permit modifications to the stock cylinder head and the method with which these are being modified. Current SM rules permit cylinder head modifications beyond the level of more "radical" categories, including, but not limited to, SCCA Production and Super Touring® Lite. It needs to be stated that the heads examined at the Runoffs were modified on varying levels, but each head found out of compliance was in violation of the rules as they are written. Additionally, this is not simply an issue with de-burring, but rather actual smoothing, blending and porting on the sharp edge from the plunge cut.



To achieve the long-term goal, the class must ultimately return to stock cylinder heads with a permitted industry-standard valve job.



Recognizing the number of modified (both compliant and non-compliant per the current rules) cylinder heads in the community, the expense to replace these and potential parts availability concerns, the group agrees to the following path, with details to be finalized no later than the December 14 SCCA Board of Directors meeting:

- Permit plunge cuts and unshrouding per the current rules, but with clarification of concentricity, as well as some level of blending of the plunge cut (language TBA). These modifications may require that additional weight be added to the car.

- Independent testing will be conducted to determine the effect of the individual and collective modifications. Only once this scientific data is collected and evaluated will weight levels be determined.

- Weight additions will compensate for the power gains from the head modifications, while also encouraging the behavior of changing back to an unmodified head as soon as possible.

- The allowance of these modifications will have a sunset period of one to two years, based on parts availability. The intention is for this to happen sooner than later, but with appropriate competitor notification.

- Only un-modified heads would be permitted for competition at the 2015 SCCA National Championship Runoffs.



Additionally, the group unanimously desires greater resources and efforts with regard to season-long compliance checks. Collectively, it is developing an enhanced compliance program to address this. The group will also evaluate class parity and additional concepts to ensure parity and compliance moving forward.



Timing: The working group welcomes input, which can be submitted through SCCA's www.clubracingboard.com site or NASA's John Mueller at [email protected]. A final recommendation of the group, with the support of all involved parties, will be presented to the SCCA Board of Directors and NASA leadership for approval in December.


At its October meeting, the SCCA Board of Directors unanimously passed the following motion: SCCA Board of Directors directs SCCA Staff and CRB to jointly develop with Mazda and NASA a rule set and timeline to address the Miata engine preparation. This may include recommendations around protest, appeals and teardown in the GCR for Spec Miata.



Summary: The working group believes that this structure achieves the long-term goal, while addressing short-term concerns. Drivers with modified components that need time to perform the necessary changes will be able to compete at a reasonable level in the short term, with the class as a whole driving together toward a better long-term goal.



For the sport,



Lisa Noble, SCCA President and CEO

John Doonan, Mazda Motorsports Director

John Mueller, NASA Spec Miata National Director

Robert Clarke, SCCA Pro Racing President/SCCA VP of Business Development

Tony Ave, SCCA Club Racing Board

Steve Sanders, MAZDASPEED Motorsports Development Manager

Mike Allen, MAZDASPEED Motorsports Development Specialist
Still don't understand why they don't just go to a sealed engine? Would be cheaper than a pro engine and you wouldn't have all these headaches. Just add some weight to the cars with unsealed engines so people can still bring out a lower level car.
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