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-   -   Adventures in PTE/TTE (https://www.miataturbo.net/race-prep-75/adventures-pte-tte-71342/)

cabowabo 12-24-2017 01:31 PM

Bad/Good news everybody!

I've been putting it off, but finally compression tested my motor that has felt a little weak, sounds "farty", and lost oil for the first time at NOLA. 140 dry, 160 wet across the board (HF tester). Even ignoring that the tester might inherently read low, the wet gaining 20psi across the board says it all, I think. Plan is to source a healthy NB1 motor and make the swap. Should be an easy 136whp for the TTE* reclass.

The onset of power/oil loss was so sudden I'm not sure what happened. If 100 degree 7 session days at TWS didn't kill it I'm not sure how a mild 40-70 degree at NOLA finally did it in. It's not even a 70k mile motor, don't judge me. Think this might make a good case for running better (than Mobil1) oil in this car, between 4.77's on the interstate and track duty.

sixshooter 12-24-2017 04:33 PM

Mobil 1 is weak

Arca_ex 12-24-2017 05:17 PM

I have like 170k miles and 200+ hours of track use on my original unopened motor and all I use is Rotella T6. Don't think it was your oil, unless you run thin stuff and no oil cooler.

cabowabo 12-24-2017 05:18 PM

5w-30 no oil cooler. Still, it didn't feel noticeably different or start burning oil until NOLA, which was some of the coolest/mildest weather of the season. I also don't run the oil over more than two events due to street usage and a lot of short trips around town. Definitely on-board with using high end oil (Amsoil?) of a different weight if it prevents this moving forward. Not real pleased with myself killing a motor so prematurely.

I might try another tester just for a sanity check. The motor certainly isn't at the point of feeling awful tired, it's just slightly off from where I felt it was at the beginning of the year.

Arca_ex 12-24-2017 05:28 PM


Originally Posted by cabowabo (Post 1458489)
5w-30 no oil cooler.

Well there you go.

Looks like next mod on your list is an oil cooler. Save the money you'd spend on boutique oil and put it towards that instead.

cabowabo 12-24-2017 05:34 PM


Originally Posted by Arca_ex (Post 1458497)
Well there you go.

Looks like next mod on your list is an oil cooler. Save the money you'd spend on boutique oil and put it towards that instead.

Wasn't under the impression peasant class N/A hp required it, even in hot weather. Guess I proved myself wrong. It's going to be a mad dash to get the car prepped for the first event in about 4 weeks :p

engineered2win 12-25-2017 11:38 PM


Originally Posted by cabowabo (Post 1458472)
Bad/Good news everybody!

I've been putting it off, but finally compression tested my motor that has felt a little weak, sounds "farty", and lost oil for the first time at NOLA. 140 dry, 160 wet across the board (HF tester). Even ignoring that the tester might inherently read low, the wet gaining 20psi across the board says it all, I think. Plan is to source a healthy NB1 motor and make the swap. Should be an easy 136whp for the TTE* reclass.

The onset of power/oil loss was so sudden I'm not sure what happened. If 100 degree 7 session days at TWS didn't kill it I'm not sure how a mild 40-70 degree at NOLA finally did it in. It's not even a 70k mile motor, don't judge me. Think this might make a good case for running better (than Mobil1) oil in this car, between 4.77's on the interstate and track duty.

Oil, unlike coolant, isn't greatly affected by the actual combustion event. It is proportional to engine speed. The difference between 7000rpm firing vs motoring (being spun by a dyno) is only 10-15 *C. Therefore, there isn't a huge difference between a stock BP and a 250whp S/C BP (obviously an oil cooled turbo will add more heat) at the same engine speed. Also running 30 weight oil with high ambient temps and no oil cooler is just asking for problems.

flier129 01-05-2018 02:23 PM


Originally Posted by flier129 (Post 1456532)
Can everybody do me a solid and respond to this thread expressing your concern and general agreement?

nasaforums.com ? View topic - Sub-frame reinforcement proposal for PTE/TTE & PTF/TTF

Thanks!!!!!:D

So I have not been told no on this ;)

Arca_ex 01-05-2018 09:19 PM


Originally Posted by flier129 (Post 1460165)
So I have not been told no on this ;)

You know exactly how PT rules work. If you got no response then it's a no. lol.

engineered2win 01-05-2018 09:41 PM


Originally Posted by Arca_ex (Post 1460226)
You know exactly how PT rules work. If you got no response then it's a no. lol.

This has always been a sticky point for the e36 guys. They don't officially have a subframe tearing problem, according to Greg, even though it's a widespread problem.

How does one prove that this isn't a performance enhancing modification? What are we to do if someone challenges it? The rule is quite hypocritical because at the same time, they allow stitch welding the entire chassis, which would only be done for a performance advantage. So we can reinforce our front subframe and stitch weld the entire chassis, but the e36 guys can't fix a known problem?

The Spec Miata rules at least call out the specifics of the modification.

flier129 01-06-2018 10:22 AM


Originally Posted by Arca_ex (Post 1460226)
You know exactly how PT rules work. If you got no response then it's a no. lol.

I did receive a response :D

Arca_ex 01-06-2018 08:38 PM


Originally Posted by flier129 (Post 1460275)
I did receive a response :D


Share it or die. :party:

meBlaise 01-08-2018 02:10 PM


Originally Posted by Arca_ex (Post 1458497)
Well there you go.

Looks like next mod on your list is an oil cooler. Save the money you'd spend on boutique oil and put it towards that instead.

For those of us who are not ready to drop the coin on a cooler, is 10W30 adequate insurance? I just want to keep the car reliable for (advanced) DE duty...

cabowabo 01-08-2018 02:13 PM

I've got a 55k mile BP4W on the way and first event is on 27th. Frantic season prep mode, engage. Going to go ahead and knock out tb/wp and seals since I already had a kit ready to go. Definitely throwing an oil cooler at this one, may also ithrow a coolant re-route at it. No reason not to I reckon. +11whp from last season and moving up to SM7's from RC1's. Let the hunt for records commence.


Originally Posted by meBlaise (Post 1460661)
For those of us who are not ready to drop the coin on a cooler, is 10W30 adequate insurance? I just want to keep the car reliable for (advanced) DE duty...

Unless my knowledge of how oil works is truly that lacking I don't believe there's any extra protection (on track at least) as 5w vs 10w is only at play when the oil is cold. You'd have to bump the second number up for more hot viscosity.

Arca_ex 01-08-2018 06:03 PM


Originally Posted by meBlaise (Post 1460661)
For those of us who are not ready to drop the coin on a cooler, is 10W30 adequate insurance? I just want to keep the car reliable for (advanced) DE duty...

I don't understand why anyone runs less than a 5w-40. Even for daily driver use.

Get some T6 for super cheap at Walmart and call it a day. Use the saved money to put towards an oil cooler.

jpreston 01-08-2018 06:27 PM


Originally Posted by meBlaise (Post 1460661)
For those of us who are not ready to drop the coin on a cooler, is 10W30 adequate insurance? I just want to keep the car reliable for (advanced) DE duty...

Where are you located, and how far south do you typically travel? I'm willing to accept that the guys in texas/arizona/cali have found an oil cooler to be a requirement, but I literally don't know of a single miata running an oil cooler in the great lakes region-- PTE, SM, or just general track day cars. It won't hurt anything to add one, but I definitely wouldn't consider it a requirement for a track day car that mostly runs northern tracks.

Arca_ex 01-08-2018 06:49 PM


Originally Posted by jpreston (Post 1460743)
Where are you located, and how far south do you typically travel? I'm willing to accept that the guys in texas/arizona/cali have found an oil cooler to be a requirement, but I literally don't know of a single miata running an oil cooler in the great lakes region-- PTE, SM, or just general track day cars. It won't hurt anything to add one, but I definitely wouldn't consider it a requirement for a track day car that mostly runs northern tracks.

Put an oil temp sensor on and it might change your mind.

sixshooter 01-08-2018 07:08 PM


Originally Posted by Arca_ex (Post 1460740)
I don't understand why anyone runs less than a 5w-40. Even for daily driver use.

Get some T6 for super cheap at Walmart and call it a day. Use the saved money to put towards an oil cooler.

This.

Efini~FC3S 01-09-2018 09:10 AM


Originally Posted by Arca_ex (Post 1460746)
Put an oil temp sensor on and it might change your mind.

Ignorance is bliss!

My oil temp sensor is currently unplugged....

hi_im_sean 01-10-2018 10:22 AM


Originally Posted by engineered2win (Post 1460229)


How does one prove that this isn't a performance enhancing modification?

Common sense?


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