Brake question...
 

I have a 91 Miata with stock brakes, picked up some 1.8 brackets off an 02.

I was under the impression that 94-05 1.8 brakes are the same minus the sport brakes. The 02 Miata I got the brackets from had sport suspension? Does that include sport brakes, the Mazda guy couldn't tell me anything more than that.

Will these brackets work on my 1.6 with the 1.6 calipers?

With the standard swap, just 1.8 rotors and pads?

Put this in Race Prep because I was also going to ask about ads but already got my answer.

Leave hydraulics alone, use 1.8 non-sport brackets, rotors and pads, either front or rear but not both you will have to switch which side it says it's from - I don't remember which but it is very easy.

I know how to do the swap over, but I know sport rotors are bigger, thus sport brake brackets must be bigger as well.

If these are indeed sport brake brackets, will 1.6 calipers bolt to them?

I don't think the brackets you have will work, you'll have to buy all the rest of the sport brake stuff which doing correctly includes master and booster.

Edit: $hit I don't know for sure, thought I did...

Would the booster and master cylinder be necessary?

I like the feel on my 01, I do not so much like the feel of my 92 anymore so IMO, recommended.

Checked, not getting under my cars but google, the sport parts will not work with standard 1.6 or 1.8 brakes though those will work with each other - this part I have done. If you have to do sport, do all of it, otherwise just buy 1.8 brackets, pads and rotors.

Damm that puts a damper on things, it will cost me $40 for the calipers. Rotors are $35 a piece for sport brakes...Then the cost of pads.

I think I might be better off finding some normal 1.8 brackets so I can use my 1.6 calipers and save money on rotors as well.

Thanks for the help...

The sport brakes are great, but as said, the rotors and pads are more expensive, and it's usually not the best feel without adding the booster and master as well.

They are quite the hot commodity though. Your rear hardware is worth a pretty penny to most, as sport rears with TSE's 11.75" BBK is the best setup for track guys right now.

You shouldn't be out any extra money once you sell the sports and buy the 1.8 stuff.

You say the rear hardware? Does that include calipers? Or just brackets?

Your rears are popular because they allow adding of sport rears with even more agressive Wilwoods for the front.

I believe the sport rear brakes require the sport rear calipers and brackets. However M-tune's adapters uses 1.8 rear brackets with either 1.6 or 1.8 calipers with sport rotors, so if you hear that 1.6 or 1.8 rears work with sport brackets that's probably why.

Hope that makes sense.

What I understood.

90-2000 calipers are the same, 1.8 brackets just put the caliper further from the hub allowing a larger roter and larger pad. From the swaps I have seen people use normal 1.8 brackets on 1.6 cars. Change only the rotors and pads.

The mtuned brackets are for 94-05 normal brakes(non sport) they seem to bolt between the stock 1.8 brackets and the stock 1.8 caliper. Allowing you to use sport rotors but retain the normal 1.8 calipers so you have more pad choice.

Mr rear rotors would would require the sport calipers to use. MEaning less pad choice but still great options I suppose.

The brackets you use determines what pads you use.
If you use the standard 1.8 brackets and rotors and a sport caliper, you can use any standard 1.8 brake pad. You may have to trim the pad hardware.
If you use the sport calipers to run a larger rotor on standard 1.8 brakes, you have to run sport pads.

You cant do that at all because the sport caliper does not bolt to the other brackets and vice versa.

I have rear Sport Calipers on my non sport brackets. I had to clearance the stock (carbotech) pads slightly to fit. The car is a 91. I know this is opposite to the OP's question, but hope the info will help.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1382214769

Let me clarify. I thought I had mentioned that what I said was in regards to the rear brakes. The rear brackets for standard calipers, do in fact bolt up to rear sport calipers, because that is what I currently run. I have both the standard and sport brackets for the rear. The standard rear brake calipers can, in fact, be bolted to sport brackets to run the larger rear sport rotor, as well.

Okay well IDK because I havent tried that way just normal 1.8 swap; just searched a couple sites but am curious enough that I might just try this tomorrow.

GREAT info guys...so I can in fact, if I decided I wanted too. Use the 02 sport brackets on the rear with my 1.6 calipers. Use sport rotors and 1.8 pads or sport pads?

So I take it the front 1.6/1.8 calipers wont bolt to the sport front brackets?

Correct on the front brackets.
The 1.6 rear calipers should bolt up to the sport brackets, but I don't think I would want to pay the premium cost of sport rotors and pads. Plus, there aren't as many pad options for the sport pads. You will also have to cut the dust shield for the rear sport rotor to even fit. Since you won't be able to upgrade the front brakes, I would just sell the sport brackets and buy 1.8 brackets.

Thanks for the input, i'll go ahead and do that the. Whats a general sale price for the sport brackets?

Couldn't tell you. I've never looked for just the brackets.
Maybe try finding someone to trade with in the marketplace.

You will need to be careful with that setup. 1.8 fronts + sport rears is a bit mismatched I would think.

definitely run a weaker compound in the rear...

The Sport brake package has bigger rotors in the rear than in the front.

Front: 10.6"
Rear: 10.9"

Right, but he is planning to run 1.8 rotors on the front, which are 10.0". larger rotors = more leverage.

I think he will probably be ok, since the bias is pretty heavy towards the front, but I would rather be safe than sorry on a street car.

Bumping this up, I was able to get the rest of the calipers so I figured I might as well just do the entire sport brake swap. Just looking for booster and master cylinder, however might be better to get the master cylinder new.

I will use blank rotors, what would you guys suggest for pads. My first track day will be in two weeks, first time just to get my feet wet, summer tires and a stock 1.8 so I wont be going very fast. Also told be the Miata guys who run the track that it isn't too hard on brakes.

I was thinking of just using the Oreilles's brand BrakeBest ceramic pads. $40 front/ $40 rear.

xp8s all the way. First mod for a track car should be brake pads. You don't want to get to the last session of the last day and run out of pad...bad things happen then!

defiantly not a track car, my first time out.

Also the last race of the year, so I have plenty of time to get track only pads.

Also, brake booster delete? For someone who doesn't have puny legs...

I know the pro's and cons, future plans call for turbo when it may become a problem.

XP8s are not too bad to daily. they will get noisy a week or two after the track event. I ran XP8s on my first event ever. Like I said, put your mind at ease, get some moderately aggressive pads. run 1521s if you want, or some moderately aggressive hawks.

From what I read, a lot of guys here run Carbotechs, they must be good pads.

My only concern is the price, $250 for pads that will see one trackday, then wait 2-3 months until the next track day.

I think the cheapest best option would be the Hawk HP+

Centric StopTech brand Street Performance pads. Rock Auto. $30 something front and rear. They work great even at intermediate level with BFG Rivals.

And . . . FRESH brake fluid. I run DOT4.

BTW, your stock 1.8 brakes would have worked great for you for quite some time, especially if you are not FI.

You can always spend more if you want to.

I just priced the Hp+ at $200 as well, $50 more for the XP8's

Still seems like a lot of money for 1 track use, if I can get away with dd pads that would be great. But the last thing I want is fade or failure on the track.

Sport brakes with a stock 1.8, dammit...

Sport brakes are a bit more expensive, especially in the rotor department.

I was going to run the centric blanks, rockauto has all 4 for $130.

Autozone/Duralast blanks cost even more at $140

So in reality, I need a pad that will not fail on the track, summer tires, stock 1.8, first time on the track.

I would run the XP8's but that would put me at $380 just for rotors and pads. I may go try the Centric stoptech pads that hornetball suggested, seems they are the same as axis ultimate's. Come February I can buy XP8's for track only pads.

The StopTech's superseded the ULT's. They are para-aramid, more similar to Carbotechs than ULT's.

^ Much cheaper as well, centric blanks with the StopTech pads will put me at just over $200 shipped.

I was in the same boat as you a few months ago. I took a chance on the StopTech's, and they've greatly exceeded my expectations. They feel exactly the same, hot or cold. My current setup is 10psi/185RWHP driving intermediate-level HPDE on 205/50-15 Rivals with OEM 1.8 brakes. I'm faster than the Mustangs and Corvettes in my group. These will work just fine for your first track day.

Last time I bought Axxis Ultimates they had been superseded/rebranded PBR ULT. I was unaware StopTech "Street Performance" was the new name on these, unless I'm reading that wrong? I had pretty good luck with the ULT for dual use, I'd buy them again. I wonder if StopTech will drop these in the Wilwood 7112 pattern...

Good lord ^^ this. I'm running ATE SuperBlue atm. Brake fluid becomes rather important when you start running track days, it really shouldn't be overlooked. Flush it often, it does make a difference.

I'm getting this from other forum scuttlebutt, so I have no idea if it's true and shouldn't have repeated it. It's hard to keep up with all of the company mergers/acquisition/rebranding going on all the time. If you go to the Axxis website, it gives a link to StopTech as a retailer, but nothing on StopTech's website mentions Axxis or Ultimate -- so there "could" be rebranding going on.

One thing I can say for sure is that I have about 15 track hours and a few thousand street miles with the StopTechs and have no complaints.

When I'm at the track, I see StopTech all over the place on Corvettes and other non-Miatas. It seems we are not the corporate target. StopTech markets their own calipers and BBK's and their dedicated race pads seem tailored to those. Don't know if they would fit Wilwoods. If their "Street" pad is any indication, their race pads are probably really good.

Most brake "fade" reported by track novices is actually boiling of contaminated fluid.

Appreciate all the comments guys, I will be sure to change the fluid, will get some superblue if it's in the budget.

Will go with the Centric(StopTech) pads for the mean time, get better track pads for the next season.

However one question, on Miata.net(:facepalm:) a thread there stated that the sport brakes require the sport front brake lines. Can anyone verify this? I'd love to just buy some stainless braided lines and get it over with but that's another $100

Another question for you guys, found a sport brake booster, but need to egt a master cylinder.

What would you suggest? Autozone has the new (Fenco) ms for $60, new (Centric) for $75 on rockauto, and amazon has the reman (Cardon) for $75

Too add to the pot, hope you guys have insight on this
Some interesting brake information (tech!) - MX-5 Miata Forum

The booster I will be getting is Sport with ABS, as that states the booster ratio is 9.7:1, were as the msm and non abs sport boosters are 6.4:1

Would using a smaller master cylinder reduce the boosters ratio? Bring the feeling closer to the 6.4:1 of the msm and sport non abs?

Wow. All these confusing questions. Personally, I like the 1.8 brakes with good pads and fluid. Common/effective/inexpensive/easy to maintain. If/when I need to upgrade (I'll know when it's time -- I'm not there yet), I'll be calling Andrew or Emilio and going with their recommendations.

As for the master cylinder . . . which one comes with the lifetime warranty? They're pretty simple/hard to screw up. I wouldn't fear the zone on that one. Of course, when you're doing all this mixing and matching things get more complicated.

I suspect once you get on track you'll realize that you should have kept it simple and put the emphasis on the nut behind the wheel.

$.02

+1. Brakes are about the last thing you want to be uncertain about on track...especially now we are discussing booster+master cylinder changes which will have an effect on pedal feel.

Too much for first time out ever if you ask me...

I would stick with 1.8 master/booster since you are still using 1.8 calipers. Or do a lot of reading on pedal feel with sport master/booster on 1.8 calipers. You will want to make sure you are not going to have too hard of a pedal if you drop the booster.

+1

While you are just starting out, there is nothing "wrong" with your braking system that needs to be "fixed" at this point. Don't overthink it. Don't fall into the "I need to spend more money" trap. Take care of all your maintenance items you need to catch up on first. Get new rotors and something better than DD pads and flush the hell out of your system with some good high temp (Dot 4/5, ATE, whatever) and just go out and have fun and learn.

Once you get to the point where you can destroy a set of pads/rotors in one or two events, THEN start looking at upgrades. Not for "better" braking but for longevity.

Uhhhh . . . NOT DOT5. EO didn't really mean that. LOL.

Listen to these guys and K.I.S.S.

The only reason I did all the brake stuff before my 1st track day was previous track experience on 2 wheels.

As a beginner on street tires, fresh fluid is likely all you need.

Well yeah, don't use it if you don't plan to bother with flushing your DOT 3/4 system properly.

DOT 5 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
But you are right, I probably shouldn't have mentioned DOT 5 in this context. :dealwithit:

Just order ATE from Trackspeed or RBF600 from 949 and flush your old shit fluid out with a vengeance.

Don't use DOT5 at all.

Repeat: Don't use DOT5 at all.

One more time just in case...

Don't use DOT5 at all.

Here is my problem, I have a 1.6 Miata with a 1.8l. Not much more power but enough, also plans for more in the near future.

As my brakes are now, I have shitty pads and shitty rotors that I got on the car. On the street I must brake early and I follow at much greater distances because my braking is very poor. Fresh wilwood fluid.

I have already bought the sport calipers, brackets, just need to buy the rotors and pads which I will be doing Friday. Bought the booster last night, should be here early to mid next week. The only link now is the master cylinder, thus the question I asked, my master is new but not sure how it will work with the new booster.

MY philosophy(sort of), shitty 1.6 brakes that will deffinetly need to be replaced in the near future. Why waste money on them when I can upgrade now and be much better off.

I do appreciate the help and insight on everything....

Not sure what that means...did you say...Upgrade my brake booster if I use DOT5?

Directions unclear: anus full of DOT 5 :jerkit:

Oh, I get it. For some reason I though you had a 94+ car.

If you're doing sport brakes, I would try to do it all the way -- install the system like Mazda designed it without mixing/matching. Sounds like the only part you're missing now is the MC, and I would try to get the correctly matching MC. Caveat that I have no direct, personal experience with the sport brakes.

As for DOT5, avoid silicone in breasts and brakes. ;)

Worthwhile point, use a Sport booster, but get a NON-ABS Master cylinder.

I've got an unsightly mess of junk under my hood after picking up a used ABS sport master cylinder. I'm going to live with it for now, because I'll eventually go manual with dual master cylinders.

Sport Master Cylinder Rockauto NC72-43-400B 89.79 Dorman #: M630246
Sport Brake Booster Mazdaspeed N067-43-800A 164.59

NA's all used a 7/8" bore master cylinder
NB's all used a 15/16" more master cylinder

The normal NB and sport WITH abs have a greater booster ratio, which makes the pedal easier to push, moves easier with less effort.

The sport non abs and msm used a booster with a smaller ratio, less than the other one but greater than the na boosters.

Using a smaller master with a greater booster ratio isn't going to do what I want it too really. It would require less force and input much greater pressure.

So I need to use the 15/16" master, I will use the booster I already bought for now, it should make the brakes feel like a stock NB's brakes. Pedal feel anyhow, when I find another booster I will buy it.