cage Ideas? - Page 4 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Race Prep Miata race-only chat.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-11-2011, 12:47 AM   #61
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: UK, in Cambridgeshire or wherever work takes me.
Posts: 376
Total Cats: 19
Default

There was probably at least some thought put into that cage design.
I understand the fire issue. I just can't see how you could alter that particular cage to make egress easier while maintaining the same level of stiffness and impact protection.
owenwilliams is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2011, 04:20 AM   #62
Elite Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Anacortes, WA
Posts: 2,476
Total Cats: 114
Default

It’s interesting I haven’t seen a cage that really incorporates all the details I’m looking for yet. One of the things I’m focusing on is shoulder width and aft placement. With all the weight I intend on removing I think I want to sit far back to improve weight distribution. I don’t want the main hoop interfering with the seat.

I looked at this but the rules clearly state in the first part of the definition “The main hoop must Maintain a single plane” I don’t think this would fly based on how the rules are written.


But I can’t see how this would not be ok per the rules. Both Autopower and hard dog don’t extend the main hoop all the way to the floor. Many others lean the hoop back to do it. I sort of like this Idea then lean the hoop forward a bit. The bar could be wider and further back where it would interfere with the wings on my seat and my shoulders.
Attached Thumbnails
cage Ideas?-miata_46.jpg   cage Ideas?-miata_spec2_sm.jpg  
bbundy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2011, 06:06 AM   #63
Newb
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Bellingham, WA
Posts: 19
Total Cats: 0
Default

I had a hard dog cage before I made my own and grew to really dislike it. One of the main reasons was the fact the main hoop didnt extend down to the floor. Using that type of main hoop design really screws up your options for door bars. Either your ingress/egress sucks, or you wind up having some ridiculous s-shaped bends in your doorbars. With the way I bent and placed my main hoop the very top of my Kirkey hits the rear diagnol support bar before the seats shoulder bolster makes contact with the leg of the hoop. This is with the seat almost touching the rear bulkhead/firewall. This is probably the roomiest cage I have seen in a miata while fully abiding by the scca's cage rules.

BBundy- If youre ever in Bellingham and youd like to take a look at my cage just let me. Im actually a close friend of Eric Urness's.







Attached Thumbnails
cage Ideas?-specmiataaug032011016.jpg   cage Ideas?-specmiataaug032011022.jpg   cage Ideas?-specmiataaug032011018.jpg   cage Ideas?-specmiataaug032011055.jpg   cage Ideas?-resumefabpics003.jpg  

cage Ideas?-cage011.jpg   cage Ideas?-cage014.jpg  
Baxt3r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2011, 08:24 AM   #64
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Wake Forest, NC
Posts: 175
Total Cats: 0
Default

Baxt3r, not cage related per se, but how did you paint your cage/interior? How is it holding up?
cucamelsmd15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2011, 09:17 AM   #65
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Winchester, VA
Posts: 302
Total Cats: 3
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbundy View Post
I looked at this but the rules clearly state in the first part of the definition “The main hoop must Maintain a single plane” I don’t think this would fly based on how the rules are written.
The diagonal in the main hoop here is also bent, which is either a rules no-no, a really bad idea, or both. The single plane main hoop rule would definitely be violated by the cage in your pic.
stinkycheezmonky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2011, 01:51 PM   #66
Elite Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Anacortes, WA
Posts: 2,476
Total Cats: 114
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baxt3r View Post
I had a hard dog cage before I made my own and grew to really dislike it. One of the main reasons was the fact the main hoop didnt extend down to the floor. Using that type of main hoop design really screws up your options for door bars. Either your ingress/egress sucks, or you wind up having some ridiculous s-shaped bends in your doorbars. With the way I bent and placed my main hoop the very top of my Kirkey hits the rear diagnol support bar before the seats shoulder bolster makes contact with the leg of the hoop. This is with the seat almost touching the rear bulkhead/firewall. This is probably the roomiest cage I have seen in a miata while fully abiding by the scca's cage rules.

BBundy- If youre ever in Bellingham and youd like to take a look at my cage just let me. Im actually a close friend of Eric Urness's.
I hear what you’re saying with the door bars but this is what I am thinking.

I’m building a cage more like it is for a tub GT car than a street touring or Spec car. The street touring rules limit the size and number of backing plates I assume to limit the ability to improve the non-crash related performance aspect of chassis structure with the cage. GT rules on the other hand place no limit on size or number of backing plates and there is this rule in the side impact section (“Tubes that are welded to any part of the same mounting plate are considered to be connected to one another”) so what I was figuring was making the upper tube go to the main role hoop at the base of the high connection point sort of the same height as yours. The lower tube can go to a backing plate extending down the front of the rear bulkhead firewall.
I believe my sparco seat where I want to put it would go with into your bar. The other thing I have noticed is leaning the main hoop back to get it to reach the floor puts the top of it further back where it can’t be as tall and fit under the hard top. My intent is to move engine and transmission aft in the car along with pedals, steering wheel, and seating position.

The back of my car is losing a lot of weight with no trunk floor or unibody structure just floppy exterior panels and an even lighter rear sub-frame. I think maintaining weight distribution is going to be challenging. It will be tube frame in the front as well but it is hard to take any weight out of the engine and radiator stuff to balance weight removal.

PS. do you have access to a tube bender?

Bob
bbundy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2011, 04:07 PM   #67
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (31)
 
Savington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 14,362
Total Cats: 1,323
Default

Bob, this is how TC does it:



Ingress/egress is just slightly worse than stock+race seat. Removing the steering wheel is optional. I cannot stand cages that have a tall doorbar like pretty much everything else I've seen in this thread - it makes ingress and egress so much more difficult.

More:





Attached Thumbnails
cage Ideas?-dscn1777.jpg   cage Ideas?-dscn1774.jpg   cage Ideas?-dscn1775.jpg  
Savington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2011, 04:24 PM   #68
Senior Member
iTrader: (22)
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: bay area, ca
Posts: 551
Total Cats: 19
Default

I have the TCD cage with the same door bar setup. I didn't realize how annoying it was to have taller door bars or less room for my feet until I sat in some other caged cars in Lemons last year. My only regret is not being baller enough to get chromoly.
orion4096 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2011, 05:03 PM   #69
Elite Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Anacortes, WA
Posts: 2,476
Total Cats: 114
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
Bob, this is how TC does it:



Ingress/egress is just slightly worse than stock+race seat. Removing the steering wheel is optional. I cannot stand cages that have a tall doorbar like pretty much everything else I've seen in this thread - it makes ingress and egress so much more difficult.

More:





Ok I had not seen that detail of TC cage before. Yep that is exactly what I have been determining as the way to do the main hop and door bar. Actually this looks far and away better than any other cage I have seen in a lot of areas of detail.
Bob
bbundy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2011, 10:14 PM   #70
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Diego
Posts: 2,863
Total Cats: 485
Default

I hadn't ever noticed how TC does that main hoop. Quite interesting, I like it.

The only thing I don't like is 3 bends per door tube.

-Ryan
ThePass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2011, 11:50 PM   #71
Elite Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Anacortes, WA
Posts: 2,476
Total Cats: 114
Default

Would TC do a weld it yourself kit?
bbundy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2011, 02:29 AM   #72
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (31)
 
Savington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 14,362
Total Cats: 1,323
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbundy View Post
Would TC do a weld it yourself kit?
I doubt it. You'd be better off having him weld it in - he only charges $1600 for the entire thing (tube+labor) and he's very open to small custom changes. The Red Rental has narrowed doorbars so the power windows still work, and the black car has a straight dashbar+custom column mount instead of the standard SM bar that hugs the firewall a bit more. He will also TIG the cage in, or do it in chromoly if you want.

Tony's cages are awesome - I actually can't think of a single thing I would want to change about my cage. It is very well thought-out in a lot of places, and incredibly affordable to boot.
Savington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2011, 02:39 AM   #73
Newb
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Bellingham, WA
Posts: 19
Total Cats: 0
Default

Bob- Eric has a JDsquared bender that I have a 1.5" od 4" radius die for. I also have access to a hydraulic bender and a mandrel bender at my work.

I think the arguement concerning ingress/egress is kinda splitting hairs. The difference in height of the top door bar when comparing my cage and Savington's cage is literally only a couple of inches. Mine is above the door striker where his is below. However, where my top door bar tube attaches to the a-pillar by the dash is actually lower making it easier to swing your feet in. Back to back theyre probably not drastically different. Personally I think its a terrible design flaw to put an s-shaped bend in a tube tho and refused to do it. If I were to run the TC style hoop I think I would actually run a hole saw thru the door jam where the latch is located, and run my tube at an angle from the base plate thru the door jam and locate one bend where the latch is so the bar can be run straight across inside the door skin. If I knew how to use paint this would be easier to describe.
Baxt3r is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2011, 04:01 AM   #74
Elite Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Anacortes, WA
Posts: 2,476
Total Cats: 114
Default

The metal removal process has begun.
Attached Thumbnails
cage Ideas?-p1010x007.jpg  
bbundy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2011, 03:36 PM   #75
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Diego
Posts: 2,863
Total Cats: 485
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Baxt3r View Post
Personally I think its a terrible design flaw to put an s-shaped bend in a tube tho and refused to do it. If I were to run the TC style hoop I think I would actually run a hole saw thru the door jam where the latch is located, and run my tube at an angle from the base plate thru the door jam and locate one bend where the latch is so the bar can be run straight across inside the door skin. If I knew how to use paint this would be easier to describe.
This is what I was trying to get at that bugged me about the TC door bars. I think that would be a great design change to improve the door section. You could do one bend per bar then.
ThePass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2011, 09:05 AM   #76
Senior Member
iTrader: (4)
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 1,479
Total Cats: 6
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
I doubt it. You'd be better off having him weld it in - he only charges $1600 for the entire thing (tube+labor) and he's very open to small custom changes.
Seriously?? WTF, the cheapest I can find up here from known people is $3500.
dgmorr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2011, 09:37 AM   #77
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 129
Total Cats: -1
Default

$200 - $250/point for chromoly I think is the standard...
GT42R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2011, 01:45 PM   #78
Senior Member
iTrader: (4)
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 1,479
Total Cats: 6
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GT42R View Post
$200 - $250/point for chromoly I think is the standard...
Mind PM'ing a known shop where that rate is available?
dgmorr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2011, 02:04 PM   #79
Senior Member
iTrader: (10)
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Oakdale, CA
Posts: 1,353
Total Cats: 65
Default

In for following this build, looks like a lot of material being removed, I like it.
RyanRaduechel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-04-2011, 02:08 PM   #80
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (31)
 
Savington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 14,362
Total Cats: 1,323
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dgmorr View Post
Seriously?? WTF, the cheapest I can find up here from known people is $3500.
TCDesigns > *
Savington is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Project Gemini - Turbo Civic on the Cheap Full_Tilt_Boogie Build Threads 57 07-19-2017 05:11 PM
1994 Spec Miata Race Car SM/SM2/SSM For Sale Quinn Cars for sale/trade 6 10-23-2016 08:58 AM
Bizarre connection issue? nick470 MEGAsquirt 1 09-30-2015 11:32 PM
Bad head gasket or ? shooterschmidty Engine Performance 8 09-30-2015 11:28 PM
Nuke Mars! Joe Perez Current Events, News, Politics 8 09-30-2015 05:41 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:29 AM.