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Looking for some input, as well as theoretical conversation.
We just completed an 8+7 with ChampCar this weekend. 2nd overall both days to a new NC build out of the Austin area. Absolutely gorgeous car, and excellent build. From what I could tell, mainly a Spec MX-5 with mild aero (Wing/Splitter). The car was very quick, making up a 4 lap black flag penalty on Saturday to win. We were driving at 10/10's all weekend, and were not able to touch the consistent pace of that car. Looking into the initial goal of spec mx5, the platform touted 5 sec/lap quicker pace than current SM's and targeted to cross class race in ST5.
With all the development put into the NC chassis, are the NA/NB's going to be out classed moving forward?
I see it very likely that the NA/B will be quickly outclassed by the NC in most series. Its a newer chassis design with better power potential. Outside of the potential higher cost of entry, everything else for the NC makes more sense per dollar than a NA/B.
Lap time data for this event?
What is the SM lap record there?
Sting length (fuel economy/capacity) of your NB vs the NC?
On track, what parts of the track was the NC faster. Coming off corners, terminal velocity, corner entries, mid corner speed, slow turns, fast turns..?
Lap time data for this event?
What is the SM lap record there?
Sting length (fuel economy/capacity) of your NB vs the NC?
On track, what parts of the track was the NC faster. Coming off corners, terminal velocity, corner entries, mid corner speed, slow turns, fast turns..?
The track repave was just completed a month ago, with a slight layout change that slowed the optimal lap time (Turn 7 tightened to a decreasing radius) Personal best time from March of '19 was a 1.27.6, fastest ChampCar lap time March of '19 1.27.4
Two hour max stint length, our capacity is roughly 14 gallons. I saw three cans go into the NC, but I'm not certain on capacity.
Car definitely had a horsepower advantage, in the fast sweeper we were able to pull slightly, but as soon as the track straightened up they would pull a gap. Assuming it is very similar in terms of build to a Spec MX5 I'm guessing 175/2300 (13.1 PWR) we're closer to 16 PWR (140/2250)
We definietly have some weight to cut out of the car, but I think we need 10-15 more horse additionally to get on the same page. My concern is as we start turning the engine up, our fuel efficiency will start to suffer. Going two hours is critical in our format, with the 5 min minimum pitstop rule.
Yup, the BP just doesn't have the BSFC numbers to match more modern engine and why we are swapping in the K24Z3. Ironically, K Miata developed the Z3 swap to get around the subframe penalty for champ car. But the car still has too many points to be competitive with other platforms. Four or five years ago when Miatas were dominating champcar that rule made sense. But development on all these other platforms has caught up and now the Miata is no longer the favorite. It is probably the best thing for champcar as it allows bigger cars that are easier to fit big American drivers into and allows some diversity of platforms. Take away the Miata tax and it becomes a one-car series like NASA also was for a while.
If you can't find more power in the BP without hurting fuel economy, then your only option is to pull a bunch of weight out. Your car looks pretty slick Aero wise. The early Miata is such a high drag body that even small changes make big differences in terminal velocity.
Looks like they ding engine swaps pretty hard even if you're detuning the new engine. I honestly don't see a good way to catch up to them within that ruleset.
Looks like they ding engine swaps pretty hard even if you're detuning the new engine. I honestly don't see a good way to catch up to them within that ruleset.
Yup. Vegas (NB2 with K24Z3) will only run EC class in Champcar because of that. It's mainly being built for LDR (Lucky Dog Racing) and AER where we are targeting overall wins. Also sending the car to Dan Howard in OH for a few WRL events.
The K24Z4 (160 horse) is probably the only swap that's feasible, unfortunately, it just doesn't leave you much room for supporting parts. We could potentially make it fit if we run a stock radiator and stock front sway bar...
Yup. Vegas (NB2 with K24Z3) will only run EC class in Champcar because of that. It's mainly being built for LDR (Lucky Dog Racing) and AER where we are targeting overall wins. Also sending the car to Dan Howard in OH for a few WRL events.
Thank you so much for that, a great reminder
Miss that man's chance to make more music.
Love the guitar work on all of his songs.
Not really sure how it relates to the drag of a Miata body, but thanks again.
And yeah, since nothing happens when you step on the gas in a Spec Miata, "The waiting is the hardest part" ... so very true.
I wouldn't get too worried about the NC just yet. Times are very similar and there isn't much of a speed difference in the video, way less than the BMWs to NA Miata which only has a 10-20whp difference. If they were running RE71Rs then I would explain the entire speed difference vs. the RS4. It looks like at times the NC just has more mechanical grip available.
NC is so much faster than na/nb that even xidas doesn't make the earlier models faster, its that big of a difference between the chassis.
Pretty much this. It's gonna be really hard to get a NA/NB up to NC levels. I was mindblown when I drove one and they are really the better bang for buck now that the NA/NB has appreciated so much.
Agreed with Goingnowherefast. NC chassis is a significant upgrade from the NA/NB. Little things like the usage of lightweight aluminum parts on the suspension helps reduce unsprung weight, and the engine is placed further back to essentially make it almost a mid-engine car. I too was also mindblown by the difference between an NA/NB vs an NC in similar prep forms if we take horsepower out of the equation.
09-28-2020, 11:38 AM
Chasing the NC in budget enduro
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