Yes that is it. You won't get 100% of what you were expecting at first. After a short delay at WOT, you will then achieve the turbo car's dyno curve torque.

You can drive around these things with some effort. So in autocross, practice up your left foot braking for a turbo car. This can help you get to the good stuff faster along with getting the timing better. It takes awhile to become an effective left foot braker. And it is a good thing for any type of engine for some other reasons having to do with handling and driver control.

In the case of the side by side video I posted above…had I been in that turbo car, it would have done better. I'd have had the turbo engine loaded against the brakes as the V8 car rolled up. Since I acknowledge that there is some lag without having a hissy fit, so then I will work to minimize it as best as I can.

As the horn was honking the turbo car would be either floored or with a good chunk of gas pedal. Then you will have some boost waiting for you. So at the 3rd honk you get your foot off the brake pedal and simultaneously add more throttle (if it was not already floored). That would get rid of most of the initial fall back the car experienced in the video. This would be done a short time before you need it, not 2 minutes earlier!

No matter what you do there is some lag. For instance any of the resonant elements in the intake or exhaust create some lag. Same concept can act up in loudspeakers too. Ported subs can sound a bit different than sealed. Part of this is because the resonant elements cause what is termed Group Delay. At the same time as they can provide a useful boost in output. It's just Physics in the end.

 

Big ******* deal.

 

Some people like to improve their setup. Watch out if you race against them!

When you measure things closely enough, you just see the imperfections. Some of them can be dealt with or worked around.

Finding some lag does not mean you have to throw all your toys out of the crib and flush your cell phone down the toilet.

 

And why would a turbo car show a greater lag in torque after MAP rise, than a naturally aspirated car?

 

I'm really tired of "throttle response" killing good threads.

 

I don't think it's killed this thread, it's pretty interesting, though some members need to take their dolls back and suck their thumbs again.

 

What does driveline lash and bumpsteer have to do with anything? Every car has driveline lash. A 300whp turbo car will not have more or less driveline lash than a 300whp naturally aspirated car.

You talk about situations, and then you pull one that fits your pre-conceived conclusions perfectly. How convenient. How about looking at my real-life, real-world situation, since that's the one that I started this thread around.

-High lateral loads
-High speed (90+mph)
-Small transient throttle inputs

Yes, turbo cars have lag if you start them from a dead stop, or from 0% TPS, but that's not the point I was trying to make (although it's the point you've made over, and over, and over, and over). My point was that in real-world examples, where you are NOT snapping the throttle open, but rather rolling into the throttle over time (like 2+ seconds of time), the lag that many people believe to be so significant in every case is virtually eliminated.

Take your dyno torque example - yes, if you snap the throttle it will take a moment for the turbo car to reach its full rated torque at a given RPM. However, if you hold the car at that RPM on the dyno, and then sweep the throttle from 0% to 100% over a period of 5 seconds, what happens then? When you slow the rate of change of the throttle, does the correlation between throttle position and manifold pressure become closer? I believe it does.

My point is that in the real world, where you are not snapping, but rather rolling into the throttle, the lag is much, much less significant than many people believe it to be. Would you agree?

 

The double-digit horsepower crew will disagree with you.

 

Now you introduce a factor that is very controversial when it comes to racing on track, the driver...
How you manage predictable situations is one thing, "lag" (if horrible too long due to whatever mismatched parameter) can be dealt with by rolling into the throttle earlier.
But "lag" comes up a lot as an excuse for lost momentum while rescuing a poor setup (e.g. rescuing with a complete throttle lift) by some of my close-by turbo drivers.

I'm not saying that the situation would be much different regardless of engine (the same driver could probably fail even with an electrical motor), but it's a convenient excuse that is widely accepted (especially by those who haven't even tried driving a decent turbo setup, and I'm one of them).

 

Is this going to go on and on for pages about how the fastest Miatas in the nation offer a miserable driving experience because they don't rev as fast as a 458 Italia-LM racecar?

 

Ive driven an n/a, m45, and 3076 cars back to back. Shocked to find out the "huge, laggy" setup actually had just as much torque down low, response at 4k+, and just absoultely CRUSHED the others in both power and torque everywhere.

 

back to back where?
straight road?
autox?
road course?
rally course?
etc

 

I'm pretty sure he is referring to the time he was at your mom's house.

 

But on a serious note: it was just street driving. A little bit of everything: straights, back roads, around town, etc.

I know most will jump in now and say "oh but you didn't do auto-x so it doesn't count".

 

.

 

Are you going to answer the questions from my last post or not?

 

Pretty much.

 

I for one agree completely.

 

fu@k auto-x! lol

stop feeding this guy sav. there's nothing you can say or do to prove this to him or any fukboy irtb lover your point.

they will also never experience the power or speed you have, so who cares what they think.

i'm pretty sure this site is called "Miata Turbo" if you don't like it gtfo.

 

Maybe one day you too can be a moderator.