LownSlow616

Did some searching around the internet and didn't find a whole lot on this. Figured some track guys might be able to help out.

I really like the aqueous foam (AFFF) extinguishers. Until I watched a video of it dissolving into a cup of e85.

Then I found AR-AFFF. (Alcohol resistant Afff.) but I read that can be very corrosive on plastics, rubber, etc.

Also found a post on a rx7 forum about sodium bicarbonate being used successfully against e85 fires. But I couldn't find any other info on it.

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks

afm

iTrader: (3)

SPA has released a new line of fire systems based on 3M Novec 1230, which is a safer replacement for Halon.

http://www.spatechnique.com/store/itemList.cfm?catID=30

I am likely getting this system to replace my AFFF system, primarily because they offer a version with triple (mechanical, electrical, and thermal) activation. It is expensive, but that versatility and automatic activation seems worth it.

Edit: the 3-way SFI system of interest
http://www.spatechnique.com/store/it...D=972&catID=30

afm

iTrader: (3)

They also make various sizes of Novec handhelds, if that's what you were interested in:

Online Store - Hand Held Fire Extinguisher - 2.0Kg. | SPA Technique

Savington

iTrader: (31)

Well, I had no idea AFFF was useless against E85. I'll be swapping for 3M Novec or something else before switching Rover over.

aidandj

iTrader: (5)

Monk

iTrader: (3)

Yes, there are two different types of AFFF.
Often the big crash carts you see at airports etc. carry the type that is useless against fuels containing alcohol.
Make sure whatever you purchase is labeled AR(alcohol resistant)-AFFF.
A cold-fire extinguisher would also work and is easily refilled, but I've only seen great big ones.

x_25

Well that settles that.

LownSlow616

Isnt the 3m novec stuff a replacement for halotron? It looks like it works by filling up an enclosed area and taking oxygen away from the fire.

Those types only work well in enclosed areas. And don't really offer protection from re-ignition. Not going to work for me.

Im going to call chemguard and ask about their ar-afff foam and if its corrosive.

Noob question, but when you just buy the foam agent, how do you get it inside a fire extinguisher? And what extinguisher does it need to go in

Monk

iTrader: (3)

It depends entirely on the extinguisher.
Refillable AFFF extinguishers are often cartridge based and may need to be sent in somewhere for service.
The easiest ones to service have a screw off valve.
You just un-screw the valve, put the correct ratio of foaming agent to water in, re-screw the top, and use an air compressor to charge the extinguisher to the correct pressure.

Edit: I am unfamiliar with this brand, and I don't know if the solution is AR-FFF, but it gives a good example of how a cartridge activated suppressor works and is filled.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Firecharger-2-3L-AFFF-Racing-Fire-Bottle-Extinguisher-Suppression-System-/201077978460?hash=item2ed12e755c:gU4AAOxylpNTVrs R&vxp=mtr

LownSlow616

http://www.spatechnique.com/store/it...D=958&catID=32

I think this might be the answer for me. Description says its alcohol resistant. 6 liters for $165 or 2.4 liters for $145

MrJon

I think that's a misconception, I've seen videos of halotron working very well in open fields with a a pretty decent breeze. Also there is this from the 3M faq

Q: How does 3M Novec 1230 fluid extinguish a fire? A: Novec 1230 fluid stops the combustion process by absorbing heat. As part of an advanced fire suppression system, it quickly extinguishes the fire. Unlike CO2 and inert gases, Novec 1230 fluid does not extinguish a fire by displacing the oxygen in an enclosure.

http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/1...fluid-faqs.pdf

I would love to see more in depth discussion of this.

LownSlow616

Interesting. I wonder how it would do on a fuel fire. I like the idea of afff being able to put a "blanket" over everything to prevent re-ignition. I called spa technique and the guy said the 2.4 liter unit is comparable to a ~5.25lb unit.

I think $145 for a 5.25lb extinguisher of ar-afff is pretty reasonable

MrJon

One other possible consideration is that as far as I know the AFFF stuff will freeze, so you can't leave it outside in the winter in cold climates.

LownSlow616

It says "freeze-protected"

bellwilliam

iTrader: (1)

Lifeline Zero 360 FIA 2.25kg Novec 1230 Fire Marshal System
$700 for in car fire system..... data sheet this works on ethanol

talked to Amerex, their Purple K handheld is Ethanol approved.

emilio700

iTrader: (3)

A few of us in Supermiata were surprised to learn that not all fire systems are rated to knock down alcohol (E85) fires. Check your onboard and hand held bottles, pit and shop bottles.

Vegas has an ESS system with AFFF (Aqueous Film Forming Foam) that will need to be refilled with their optional AR-AFFF (alcohol resistant) stuff.
Bullet has a SPA AFFF system. All SPA AFFF use Ansulite3x6 which is AR rated. Phew.

If you are using, transporting or storing E85, check the ratings or contact the mfr of your fire suppression equipment.

shuiend

iTrader: (24)

Someone else just made a thread about this within the last week or so. There was some good information in there.

18psi

iTrader: (76)

Yup, search n00b

dr_boone

iTrader: (1)

https://www.miataturbo.net/race-prep...her-e85-93155/

bellwilliam

iTrader: (1)

handheld being mostly dry chemical, handles E85 well. I learned that Indy (they run 98% ethanol) pit fire crew carries Purple K. which is only $43 for a 2.5LB bottle (5LB is $71) on Amazon.....