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Dry Sump - DIY Suggestions?

Old 12-17-2018, 11:55 AM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by jspeed.713 View Post
I have been working through a workaround in my head instead of a dry sump setup. Involves drilling and tapping oil pan towards the very top on both the driver's and passenger's side, adding an fittings then connected to small reservoir of some sort, which then has pickup tubes that are plumbed to the electronic oil pump (similar to differential cooler pump). Use pump controller that triggers pump on over a certain lateral g load, oil that is sloshed against port and sucked up by pump renters the pan thru an additional drilled/tapped port and has a tube that pumps oil back to the oem oil pickup tube. Similar premise to fuel transfer pumps inside oem fuel tanks. Assuming you are doing your own labor, supplies under $1000. Possibly a simple mechanical based system to do the same job to avoid integrating electronics etc.

Possible add baffle similar to 911s or like oem fuel pump sending units but less enclosed..so pumped oil is directed inside the baffle area.
Sounds like a factory BMW oil solution to me. In order for it to work even a little, you'd have to spend a lot of time determining the proper location for the electric pump pickups, among lots of other things. It's so ******* complicated when it doesn't have to be in a miata.

Those rubber flappers are generally a good idea for wet sumps.

If you have $1000 to spend on miata oiling, a better solution would be a dedicated dry sump setup discussed here.

+1 on the Dailey scavenge section with the air/oil separator. It is hard to beat.

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Old 12-18-2018, 03:07 PM
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Good info here!

Does anyone have any ideas for the front pulley?

Does anyone have any photos of a BP dry sump setup, the pump, mount, pulley / drive etc?
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Old 12-18-2018, 03:12 PM
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You need something like this. The google term is "dry sump mandrel". I'm sure ATI has a fairly easy one, if you want to hassle with their damper. Same with BHJ, with the same quality caveats.

Mazda MX-5 1.8L BP Race Damper Deluxe Dry Sump Mandrel with Hex Drive [DSM-MAZ-1.8BP-SP-HEX] : HarmonicDampers.com by BHJ Dynamics, Performance Harmonic Dampers, Harmonic Balancers and Specialty Crankshaft Vibration Dampers
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Originally Posted by codrus View Post
Basically I've come over to the camp of "If something is a reliability problem on the track, just ask Andrew and do what he says".
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Old 12-18-2018, 03:18 PM
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Thank you, that looks very interesting.

I was discussing this all with our race mechanic last night and we couldn't understand why you said you would only mount the tank inside rather than in the boot, do you have a moment to explain why?
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Old 12-18-2018, 03:19 PM
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3 bolt mandrel on the front of an ATI damper is definitely the most common way to do it. You could pretty easily make your own custom 4 bolt mandrel that bolts onto the stock Mazda damper, but I'm not sure I'd trust those four M6 bolts. The ATI one uses three 3/8 bolts.
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Old 12-18-2018, 03:22 PM
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Weight and cost. AN line is heavy, oil tanks are heavy. You want them as low and as close to the CG of the car as possible. That means it belongs in the passenger seat area, either in the footwell or near the rear bulkhead, depending on weight distribution goals. The trunk is higher, further away from the CG, and requires at least three large, heavy oil lines be run to it. No bueno
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Originally Posted by codrus View Post
Basically I've come over to the camp of "If something is a reliability problem on the track, just ask Andrew and do what he says".
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Old 12-18-2018, 03:25 PM
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Gotcha, thanks.
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Old 12-18-2018, 03:59 PM
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There are a few dry sump V8 miatas local to me and they all have the oil tank mounted in the trunk. It's definitely not ideal for all of the reasons Andrew mentioned but it can be done reliably.

It was already mentioned earlier in this thread, but with the tank mounted in the trunk, the vacuum rating of the hose that goes from the bottom of the tank to the inlet of the pressure pump becomes super critical. If that hose collapses from too much restriction and vacuum, you lose all oil supply. The V8 guys told me that they spent multiple hundreds of dollars on that one hose.
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Old 12-18-2018, 06:34 PM
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Do those V8 cars have the tank also go through the floor of the trunk? When I thought this was the only way the MZR would fit a miata I actually bought that turbosport pan posted above and tried to figure out where the tank would go. Good drysump tanks are tall and skinny, like twice as tall as an NA trunk, but just forward and inboard of the battery would be a decent spot. But it could hurt your aero goals.
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Old 12-18-2018, 06:56 PM
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I'm pretty sure the answer is yes, but it's been a while and I can't remember for sure. My memory is that the tank outlet fitting was roughly level with the rear sway bar.
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Old 12-19-2018, 08:48 AM
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Keep in mind if you move your oil tank to the cabin interior, most sanctioning bodies will require you to add an additional enclosure around the dry sump tank as a mini firewall/fluid retention safety measure, which can affect your positioning. Same goes for the vent - must be outside the car, not just a catch can with a breather.

Valve cover scavenge stages can be tricky for track use. You have to ensure that you're getting a continuous feed of oil to the scavenge line. Otherwise, that stage of the pump cavitates and can run dry, causing pump failure.
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Old 12-19-2018, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by jpreston View Post
3 bolt mandrel on the front of an ATI damper is definitely the most common way to do it. You could pretty easily make your own custom 4 bolt mandrel that bolts onto the stock Mazda damper, but I'm not sure I'd trust those four M6 bolts. The ATI one uses three 3/8 bolts.
I have run an Eaton M45 spinning to 17.5k rpm with an overdrive pulley that bolted right to those four. Acording to the charts I can find, that takes about 25hp and a crap ton of belt tension due to it being a 4 rib belt.
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Old 12-19-2018, 01:28 PM
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Those four bolts are known to fail at 300+whp with nothing but an OEM damper attached to them.
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Originally Posted by codrus View Post
Basically I've come over to the camp of "If something is a reliability problem on the track, just ask Andrew and do what he says".
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Old 01-08-2019, 12:53 AM
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Okay, 3 way pump, blank pulley mandrel, Oil tank and other bits and bob's ordered. Fucked if I know who's paying for it all yet (big parts and guitar sell off in my very near future).

Plan at this point...open to suggestions for and against OR what i've missed from suggestions above.

Have the tank in the boot.
Oil pump mounted in AC pump location on custom bracket.
I'm guessing the front pulley will be keyed (somehow) to the OEM damper pulley and mounted with a new, longer center crank bolt.
OEM sump modded to suit.

The rest mostly made up as we go along.....

Time frame....god knows......but Im keen on the switch to EFR so hopefully not too long. Mechanic/Engineer would rather see dry sump before we boost power any further.

Seems sensible. Hoepfully have some photos of goodies in the next day or two.
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Old 01-10-2019, 01:25 AM
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The only thing I would suggest is putting the dry sump tank in the passenger foot well.

This accomplishes a couple of things. Better weight placement, lower and in between the axles. And all of your lines going to and from the tank are shorter. Which means less cost and also the smaller runs make the system work a bit better too, as well as helping to decrease the chances of your pressure side supply line collapsing under vacuum. The longer the line, the more pumping loss it will cause.
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