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E85 safe fuel lines

 
Old 12-23-2018, 08:53 PM
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Default E85 safe fuel lines

There is lots of contradiction whether Gates Barricade is E85 safe. The motorsport articles are referencing high quality PTFE only for E85 fuel delivery. I see some of the posts referencing running e85 with stock rubber hoses and some seem to change to AN type of advanced fuel lines.
https://www.kaizenmotorsports.com/bl...ect-fuel-hoses

and then we have some that say post 1990 all rubber fuel lines are safe.

https://www.miataturbo.net/engine-pe...nes-e85-86685/

What's the priority choice of fuel line hose change for E85- hard like to fuel rail or the back of the car, fuel filter hoses and dropping tank for supply and return line ? What about the fuel pump hose that needs to be submersible in e85? Is the submersible have a different rating ?

Which SAE 30R number is safe? Or is it all non safe and needs to be PTFE?

Please help me decipher as there are lots of opinions and misinformation with respect to use of E85 and appropriate lines.

Thanks

Last edited by stevos555; 12-23-2018 at 09:12 PM.
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Old 12-24-2018, 09:29 AM
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Here's what I did to prepare my 95.5 for use with e85:

filled up tank with pump e85.

Been working just fine for about three years now. However, I mainly use gasoline and have a flex sensor so I can go anywhere up and down the ethanol content range. Does this help with maintaining my original 20+ year old lines? I really have no idea but it might. And since pump e85 is anywhere from e66 to e82 where I live, there is always a good bit of gasoline in the mix.

I would say if you are going to run e85 exclusively and are really worried about the subject, then go ahead and change everything to the best most accepted material your research points to. Don't half-*** it. Otherwise you'll always be worrying about having done it right.
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Old 12-24-2018, 10:22 AM
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If a manufacturer like Gates says their lines are suitable for use with e85, then it is a pretty safe bet that they are. The internets are dumb. Manufacturers (especially in the automotive business) who source to the OEM industry have to be SUPER careful about the ratings claims of their products.

I am firmly in the camp of using components within their ratings, and in using components that are rated for the application. Just because something "works" doesn't mean it is suitable for a given application. Something that isn't rated for a given application can be verified for use (tested in device), but to do that right takes intent and process.
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Old 12-25-2018, 01:59 AM
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Gates Barricade is good to go. They know what they are doing. I've been running it for years with zero noticeable degradation. When I converted to E85 I replaced all soft lines with gates barricade, and also used a stock replacement Wix filter (they are good for e85) and switched to Injector Dynamics injectors which are pretty much impervious to E85 with all stainless internals. Also went to a Walbro 190hp and a new fuel sock. Then change out the fuel filter after about the first 1000 miles or so because the e85 will clean up a lot of **** in the fuel tank that will get caught in the fuel filter.

From their website on the Barricade Fuel Injection Hose description.

Exceeds SAE J3OR14T2 as well as low-permeation requirements for CARB. Approved for use with Gasoline, Ethanol/Gasoline blends (gasohol) such as E10, E15 or E85, Diesel, Biodiesel including soybean methyl ester (SME), rapeseed methyl ester (RME), palm methyl ester (PME), Biodiesel/Diesel blends such as B20, and 100% Methanol.
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Old 12-25-2018, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by hector View Post
Here's what I did to prepare my 95.5 for use with e85:

filled up tank with pump e85.
+1 to this. I've run nothing but E85 for a few years and had no issues at all. A flex sensor is very nice to have as I've gotten a couple tanks that have been lower ethanol (like 60%), but you can get away without it.

A couple years ago I datalogged driving to the gas station on 93 octane, filled with E85, switched tunes (+30% fuel, add timing in boost cells), and datalogged back home:



Same boost, quicker spool, +33hp, +30tq... and I never went back.
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Old 12-25-2018, 10:22 AM
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By replacing all soft lines, did the subframe and tank had to come out for the 2 lines that are impossible to get to ?
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Old 12-25-2018, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by stevos555 View Post
By replacing all soft lines, did the subframe and tank had to come out for the 2 lines that are impossible to get to ?
no, you do loosen the bolts to rock the tank forward, but it doesn't need to come out. I think FM has a good install guide for one of their fuel kits, the google machine can find it.
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Old 12-25-2018, 11:19 AM
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Thanks for the reference. I did find the FM install and it appears that front bolts holding the fuel tank are loosened and then there should be enough room between the bulkhead to install the new hoses on the hard lines. Will be trying this with Gates Barricade hose. Also likely need to replace the rollover and check valve sections.

The NB injector O rings are compatible for E85?
I am currently NA and seems I need RX8 injectors for duty cycle.
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Old 12-25-2018, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by stevos555 View Post
Thanks for the reference. I did find the FM install and it appears that front bolts holding the fuel tank are loosened and then there should be enough room between the bulkhead to install the new hoses on the hard lines. Will be trying this with Gates Barricade hose. Also likely need to replace the rollover and check valve sections.

The NB injector O rings are compatible for E85?
I am currently NA and seems I need RX8 injectors for duty cycle.
honestly? Bite the bullet and source better injectors. I am a hugh ID fan, but it seems the FF640 is really popular at a better price. I think the forum member who sells the FF640 is really good with support, I imagine he can tell you if the orings are e85 compatible.
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Old 12-25-2018, 12:02 PM
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TSE? The EV14 seems like a good e85 match. Thanks again
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Old 12-25-2018, 12:11 PM
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TSE is always a good bet, I thought there was a forum member who sold matched sets with all of the essentials.
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Old 12-25-2018, 12:14 PM
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nigelt
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Old 12-25-2018, 02:04 PM
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Nigelt (Flowforce) also makes EV14 380cc injectors.

Last edited by skylinecalvin; 12-26-2018 at 02:07 PM.
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Old 12-26-2018, 01:37 PM
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Thanks for asking! All our injectors (380, 640, and 960) are EV14, and are e85 safe. For a naturally aspirated build, 380cc should give you headroom for a very comfortable 170whp on e85 with NA fuel pressure. 200whp on NB fuel pressure.
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Old 12-27-2018, 08:00 PM
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I am very happy with the FF 960's. I have run tons of e85 through them and they are flawless so far.

As far as submerged fuel hose, I have been running standard PA12 nylon stuff in the tank, hasn't changed at all.
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