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Old 08-18-2014, 06:00 PM   #1
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Default Easing into track days, want some advice.

I've been doing some reading in Sav's oil cooler thread and would like more specific input. I didn't want to clutter up that thread.

I have a msm with a mishimoto radiator and stock fans and mishimoto zline IC. I've done some minor ducting to close off any holes but I still have a/c. This setup has worked fine for me the last few years with street driving and autocross.

I'm running around 12-13psi on the stock turbo. I'm up in Chicago where it's not super hot, but some days are 90+. The single trackday my car has seen yet this summer, my coolant temps are around 205*-220* after 20min sessions. I've got my ms to warn me if it goes past 225* which is has not yet. I'm running rotella t6(as it seems to be the favorite around here)but I've yet to install any sort of oil cooler/temp sensor. Should I be worried about an oil cooler? My plan for years to come is tracking maybe 3-4 times a summer with a handful of autocross. Otherwise I just drive it weekends on the street.

I've picked up second hand a 1st generation FM oil cooler kit before they moved to the setrab coolers. It's sort of bulky and uses the vinyl lines vs. steel braided. I'm pondering on how to mount it and where it'll fit well. I figure at least replacing the old fittings and lines before installing it. Should I ditch this setup? I liked that it has the thermostatic plate, but has no holes for temp/pressure sensors.

I've had my eye on the mishimoto kit, is it worth my time? Or should I just save up for the trackspeed or new FM kit?

I'm guessing my first step would be getting a gauge to see my temps and get a baseline where I'm at. Got a trackday at blackhawk farms coming up Sept 20th and am planning to do a lot of test and tuning.

Any and all advice would be appreciated, thanks guys!

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Old 08-18-2014, 08:56 PM   #2
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Probably want to get a better radiator in there first, like the stock MSM one if you still have it.
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Old 08-18-2014, 11:28 PM   #3
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m.net username "aruba" has a bunch of good posts/threads about oil temp control in a tracked MSM.

There is an excellent thread here on mt.net started by Savington about Oil Cooler Tech.

TLDR it is in your best interest to run a front-mount oil cooler (not steering rack) and a quality synthetic. T6 is good. M10w30 or 0w40 full syn are also good. My engine likes M1 0w40 more the T6 5w40. YMMV.
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Old 08-19-2014, 02:14 AM   #4
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Without a cooler, I promise your oil is over 250* on the track. Adding an oil cooler will help the overall thermal load on the system and will help the water a little bit too.
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Old 08-19-2014, 03:51 AM   #5
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Probably want to get a better radiator in there first, like the stock MSM one if you still have it.
Yeah, I've had my eye on the cross flow setup from FM. My original rad got a hole in it and I didn't know any better at the time and replaced it with the mishimoto unit.

Do you guys think it would matter much if I use an oil cooler adapter plate I have from glowshift over the thermostatic one? It has spots for sensors over the fm unit. I almost always have time to let the car come up to temp. And its stored for winter by end of September.
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Old 08-19-2014, 04:03 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobius View Post
m.net username "aruba" has a bunch of good posts/threads about oil temp control in a tracked MSM.

There is an excellent thread here on mt.net started by Savington about Oil Cooler Tech.

TLDR it is in your best interest to run a front-mount oil cooler (not steering rack) and a quality synthetic. T6 is good. M10w30 or 0w40 full syn are also good. My engine likes M1 0w40 more the T6 5w40. YMMV.
Thanks for the heads up on Aruba! Tons of good info!
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Old 08-19-2014, 02:45 PM   #7
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I don't have an MSM but have used a bunch of info on this guy's thread that does. A lot of good reading. A lot of good DIY instruction also. Enjoy!! Maybe I'll see you out at Autobahn some time.

The duel purpose street/track car...the 4 year (and counting) build.
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Old 08-19-2014, 02:52 PM   #8
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I would highly recommend turning the boost all the way down if you can. I'm an advocate of tracking as close to a bone stock car as you can when you're first starting off; however, this isn't exactly an option for most people out there. A lot of issues arise from trying to manage heat (exhaust temps, oil temps, coolant temps, etc) and you really don't want to do the 1 fast lap, 2 cool laps especially when you're first starting out.

Get a better radiator, install an oil cooler, and make sure that you're routing all of the air where it needs to go.
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Old 08-19-2014, 02:56 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazduh View Post
I've been doing some reading in Sav's oil cooler thread and would like more specific input. I didn't want to clutter up that thread.

I have a msm with a mishimoto radiator and stock fans and mishimoto zline IC. I've done some minor ducting to close off any holes but I still have a/c. This setup has worked fine for me the last few years with street driving and autocross.

I'm running around 12-13psi on the stock turbo. I'm up in Chicago where it's not super hot, but some days are 90+. The single trackday my car has seen yet this summer, my coolant temps are around 205*-220* after 20min sessions. I've got my ms to warn me if it goes past 225* which is has not yet. I'm running rotella t6(as it seems to be the favorite around here)but I've yet to install any sort of oil cooler/temp sensor. Should I be worried about an oil cooler? My plan for years to come is tracking maybe 3-4 times a summer with a handful of autocross. Otherwise I just drive it weekends on the street.

I've picked up second hand a 1st generation FM oil cooler kit before they moved to the setrab coolers. It's sort of bulky and uses the vinyl lines vs. steel braided. I'm pondering on how to mount it and where it'll fit well. I figure at least replacing the old fittings and lines before installing it. Should I ditch this setup? I liked that it has the thermostatic plate, but has no holes for temp/pressure sensors.

I've had my eye on the mishimoto kit, is it worth my time? Or should I just save up for the trackspeed or new FM kit?

I'm guessing my first step would be getting a gauge to see my temps and get a baseline where I'm at. Got a trackday at blackhawk farms coming up Sept 20th and am planning to do a lot of test and tuning.

Any and all advice would be appreciated, thanks guys!

you can probably use the oil cooler and just get new steel braided lines. I didn't have any problems making my own lines and -AN fittings. I would use -10AN.

I did temp/pressure off the pressure port on the side of the block. you need to support the pressure sensor with a brace otherwise they may crack and leak. You can do oil temp there also, but its after the oil cooler, so keep that in mind (you could fix this by routing a oil line to the pressure sensor that is mounted else where, but that would seem to have its own issues...). Otherwise they make AN to AN fittings with 1/8 NPT fitting for temp sensors. you could fit that on the exit of the sandwhich plate or the entry to oil cooler.

Lastly, I put my oil cooler in front, suspended infront of the radiator (two threaded rods & one more attachment to front crash structure). I imagine this spot maybe a bit more difficult to use for you since you have an IC.
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Old 08-19-2014, 03:08 PM   #10
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Do you guy's think reusing the AN fittings that were with the vinyl is ok? Or should I replace them when I move to stainless? (I'll see if I can get a photo up)

Crossflow is the absolute way to go? Or are the koyo's dramatically better than the mishi product and maybe save myself some cash?
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Old 08-19-2014, 03:15 PM   #11
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you probably wont be able to re-use the hose ends from vinyl to stainless braid. Are you sure your vinyl lines arent just vinyl coated stainless?
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Old 08-19-2014, 03:17 PM   #12
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Emilio has a new radiator coming out that would be a good price if you can wait
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Old 08-19-2014, 03:19 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazduh View Post
Do you guy's think reusing the AN fittings that were with the vinyl is ok? Or should I replace them when I move to stainless? (I'll see if I can get a photo up)

Crossflow is the absolute way to go? Or are the koyo's dramatically better than the mishi product and maybe save myself some cash?
if they are AN fittings, you can resuse them. I don't know if they use different fittings for vinyl hoses or not...As far as I know an AN hose end is pretty much an AN hose end and they are reusuable as long as they are in good shape (unless you are talking about the push-on fittings...).

I don't know what these mishimoto radiators are, but it seems to me like your coolant temps aren't bad at all. If you do a reroute or add in the oil cooler, you should see an improvement also. If you have additional power hopes in the future, you want to to consider a larger radiator though.
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Old 08-19-2014, 03:57 PM   #14
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Ok, so I just ordered a new oil temp gauge and oil drain plug with a 1/8 thread hole for the gauge sensor. I'll install it asap. I plan on hitting up an autocross next week or so, I know it won't be the same as track time, but maybe it'll give me some sort of baseline to work with and see where temps are at which I can then compare with the temps at my track day after I have the oil cooler system hopefully figured out.

I'm looking at steel braided hose in the -10AN size on Jegs.com. Is 6ft of hose really around $50? I have no basis on what pricing is fair since I've never used anything like this before. Just wanna make sure I'm buying something decent and not overpaying.

JEGS Performance Products 100931 JEGS Pro-Flo 200 Series Stainless Steel Braided Hose - Free Shipping on All Orders @ JEGS

@Seefo, I'm pretty sure they are just AN fittings. I'm at work and can't go look at them. I'll just get the hose for now and if I end up having to get new fittings so be it.
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Old 08-19-2014, 04:10 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by tomiboy View Post
I don't have an MSM but have used a bunch of info on this guy's thread that does. A lot of good reading. A lot of good DIY instruction also. Enjoy!! Maybe I'll see you out at Autobahn some time.

The duel purpose street/track car...the 4 year (and counting) build.
I've yet to catch anything at autobahn as it usually tends to be twice as expensive as Gingerman or Blackhawk. But here's hoping maybe I'll jump in early next year for GPS Tracktime's even there next year.

Have we met before by chance? Do anything with WCMC autocross?
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Old 08-19-2014, 04:13 PM   #16
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I think you should just get the oil cooler setup and then see how your coolant temps work out with the radiator you have now. Then, if you start having problems later on down the road, Emilio's crossflow would hopefully be in stock by then.
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Old 08-19-2014, 04:29 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Dunning Kruger Affect View Post
I would highly recommend turning the boost all the way down if you can. I'm an advocate of tracking as close to a bone stock car as you can when you're first starting off; however, this isn't exactly an option for most people out there. A lot of issues arise from trying to manage heat (exhaust temps, oil temps, coolant temps, etc) and you really don't want to do the 1 fast lap, 2 cool laps especially when you're first starting out.

Get a better radiator, install an oil cooler, and make sure that you're routing all of the air where it needs to go.
Meh, it depends on your mind set.

My first on-track experience?

2004 Yamaha R6. You basically get a few follow the leader laps and then, "Go!"
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Old 08-19-2014, 04:29 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Mazduh View Post
Ok, so I just ordered a new oil temp gauge and oil drain plug with a 1/8 thread hole for the gauge sensor. I'll install it asap. I plan on hitting up an autocross next week or so, I know it won't be the same as track time, but maybe it'll give me some sort of baseline to work with and see where temps are at which I can then compare with the temps at my track day after I have the oil cooler system hopefully figured out.

I'm looking at steel braided hose in the -10AN size on Jegs.com. Is 6ft of hose really around $50? I have no basis on what pricing is fair since I've never used anything like this before. Just wanna make sure I'm buying something decent and not overpaying.

JEGS Performance Products 100931 JEGS Pro-Flo 200 Series Stainless Steel Braided Hose - Free Shipping on All Orders @ JEGS

@Seefo, I'm pretty sure they are just AN fittings. I'm at work and can't go look at them. I'll just get the hose for now and if I end up having to get new fittings so be it.
What temp sensor and plug adapter did you end up going with? can you post links please.
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Old 08-19-2014, 10:20 PM   #19
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What temp sensor and plug adapter did you end up going with? can you post links please.
Here's the drain plug with a 1/8" fitting for the temp sensor:

Oil Temperature Sensor Drain Plug M14 x 1 5 Center Port 1 8" NPT Brass Gauge | eBay

Since I already have glowshift gauges I went with this:

GlowShift | Digital Red LED Oil Temp Gauge with Electronic Sensor - 52mm


On check out a IM message popped up with a rep from glowshift asking if I needed help. I asked if he had any coupon codes to give. He gave me 5% off on my order. Thought it was pretty cool of them.
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Old 08-20-2014, 09:19 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mazduh View Post
I've yet to catch anything at autobahn as it usually tends to be twice as expensive as Gingerman or Blackhawk. But here's hoping maybe I'll jump in early next year for GPS Tracktime's even there next year.

Have we met before by chance? Do anything with WCMC autocross?
No, haven't met. No autocross of any kind. Just welcoming you to the track day world! Autobahn is not cheap but it is SOOO close. I usually run with LAPS Inc. If you pay up front for (5) days at AB they are $250 each. We get (5) run sessions of 30 minutes. Most groups run 20 minutes it seems. AB is a3.6 mile track also. The're on Mondays so you miss work also. I was thinking about doing Gman on October 10th. Probably the last time I'd go this year.

Last edited by tomiboy; 08-22-2014 at 09:03 AM.
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