Ensure my next track day succeeds
 

Hey everyone I did my first track day this past weekend with articspeed up in Albuquerque at NAPA Speedway. I got in 50+ laps and I had a great time. Since it was my first time on track, I came away with some things I want to change now. I am DD'ing my 2004 Mazdaspeed and using it as the track car as well. My next track day I want to go to is March 23rd in Deming, NM at the Arroyo Seco Motorplex. I have a month to try to get the car better prepared.

1. The stock seat has no lateral support and I slid around everywhere so would a good short-term solution be a CG-Lock or should I get a replacement seat? I also had zero head room and I'm only 5'10". Remember this is my DD so it needs sliders and to be comfortable for the 300 miles I have to drive to the track. I am strongly considering the Marrad seats, but the research on here indicates no one likes them lol.

2. I also need a rollbar. I really like the silver Bossfrog clearview maxx but I would obviously buy the padding to go with it, so wouldn't it make the silver version pointless? I like the silver for aesthetic reasons.

3. I also want a smaller steering wheel and I absolutely loved the stock Nardi wheel I had on my 2000. So I want to get a Nardi, but does anyone have experience with them and which one to get for a street/track car?

As far as the car itself it recently has had new spark plugs, wires, fuel filter, oil change, MR short shifter, transmission fluid, and I compression tested it. What other maintenance would be good or what should I check? I was thinking about changing the rear diff fluid and flushing the radiator.

Did you drive on track without a rollbar?

Honestly a lot of these things are personal preference. what do you not mind. To give you an idea I have an aluminum ultrashield in my car, and its also a DD car. That being said I drive it maybe once or twice a week, so the lack of creature comforts do not bother me for the time being. Also, try to find someone local with some of the parts you are thinking of, try them out, see how they feel, see what the owner thinks about them.

If it's a DD, I would try a foamectomy before you put in racing seats. I did it, totally worth it.

Yes I drove on the track without a rollbar. I honestly cant believe they let me but this was an open track day. No inspections or anything like that. It wasnt smart and I had two off track events so I definitely need a rollbar now.

:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm::facepalm: :facepalm:

1. Rollbar, rollbar, rollbar! Also stiffens the chassis.

2. CGLock is a good interim bandaid while you look for a race seat.

3. Race seat and 5/6 point harness. You need to sit in a number of seats to find the right one for you. My Recaro is very comfortable for 3 hours (longest I've driven in it), fits me like a glove.

3A. At least on a NA, swapping seats is pretty easy (four bolts). You could get a race seat, find or have made a mount that goes on the OEM slider floor holes, and swap before/after the track day.

4. Tires next. Then SS brake lines, non-OEM pads, hi temp fluid. Then other stuff later.

Oh I do have good tires. I was actually really impressed with them. 205/40/17 BFG sport comp 2s. Ive been through rain, snow, and track days with them now. They probably have 30% tread left now though. NAPA speedway has a lot of hard turns lol.

Rollbar, harnesses, fixed back seats. Flush brake fluid. etc

Driving on track is much more enjoyable when you are securely held in.

Dont spend money on the CG lock just for the interim, just twist the seat belt around at the buckle. That holds is pretty well, its the poor mans CG lock. And to get the shoulder belt to lock in good, start with the seat all the way back, buckle in, yank on the belt to get the retractor to lock, then slide the seat forward. If you did it right, it should actually be tight on you and the retractor should stay locked. No idea if it'll stay stuck like this for an entire track session, but it'll stay for a rally-x when you catch air.

The CG-lock won't prevent your upper-body from rocking side-to-side while cornering. Look at entry-level Momo or Sparco race buckets - hurry, you only have a month. You can mount them on stock sliders or buy new sliders that fit your Miata.

Rollbars disappear under padding and the hardtop (soft top?), so just get a flat black one. Plus, you get points for stealth on the street if your rollbar is invisible. Have a look at the Hard Dog M2 Sport no diagonals - very steathly.

Since you only have a month, hold off on this one. Shop around - Momo makes some really good steering wheels, too.

As you get better, you're going to go faster. Gotta have better than stock brakes, so upgrade your brake pads. As winter turns to spring, the air will get hotter, so you'll need to think about cooling. Use less coolant and more distilled water in your radiator.

While at the track, be constantly checking the oil, the water, and the air in your tires. This will minimize surprises down the line.

I like Momo Monte Carlo wheels.

Get a seat and hard-mount it to the floor, just four bolts to swap it in and out for the track.

My next harness will be a Crow 6-point because the rewebs are cheap. I'd get Safecraft belts if I had real money.

Get one of the "SCCA approved" roll bars. You won't be able to use hard-top latches, but you don't need them.

You're probably better off buying the cheapest Miata you can find to track, leave the MSM stock. You probably don't want to go down the "tracking an MSM road".

CG Lock is already the poor man's version of a harness (not that it really does much), twisting the seat belt up is just plain ghetto.

CG lock is definitely better than nothing, although it's much more worth it and safer for anything beyond a rallyx or autox.

The SS/chrome bars only remind me of the style bars on ebay, black all the way.

You just have to find the right bar. My Harddog Hardcore is "SCCA approved" and I can still use the hardtop side latches.

All I know its the Harddog Hardcore (1.75" diameter tubing), double diagonal, integrated harness bar, and made for a hardtop (shorter than soft top version IIRC).

It's shorter and the hoop is further back than the non-Hardtop bar (which I have).

It's my understanding the non-hardtop bar will still work with a hardtop you just can't use the side latches.

This is a good reference for HardDog bars:

Hard Dog Roll Bar Application Guide

This is what I was trying to convey but I'm dumb.

You'll need to insert a PCV check valve in the crankcase breather hose that drains the oil separator. With track use, the crankcase pressures push enough oil up to overwhelm the separator; and will oil your intake system. Insert the valve so that it allows flow toward the oil pan, and blocks flow up to the separator.

I already have a 2000 sitting out in front of my house. Why would I want to track it when the MSM already has a 6 speed, turbo, better chassis, and bigger brakes?

I have installed the FM version of what you are talking about.

Ok after reading your responses and getting advice from different vendors I've narrowed down what I will get here pretty soon.

1. A black rollbar (I don't know whether to get diagonals, or Hardcore versions or whatever)
2. Upgrade my brakes (probably 949's Stage 1 kit)

Until I actually can sit in some seats, I don't want to spend tons of money on them. I ask for recommendations and everyone says to sit in them before buying or find someone local and thats the problem. If I have to drive 300 miles to even drive on a track, do you think there is anyone local? Well there isn't so I just need more time to figure it out. So my thinking is I need to be safe and the two biggest safety things I can do are a rollbar and fresh brakes so thats what I'm going to do.

1) Driving on the stock seats sucks. If you have a lot of experiencing fabbing things, then buy a seat (you can try to sit in them, but it takes more than a 10-15 second sitting to get a real feel for the seat). Otherwise I would wait, I had a good bit of trouble floor mounting my seats, especially since I added my 6-point at the same time and it just so happened to be snap-in and the eyes can make contact with the seat or the mount if you put them too far out. Also centering the driver's side is tricky, you will probably have to hammer the tunnel if you decide to floor mount.

2) Get a rollbar. I prefer black also, but just get a good one. I have the double hoop boss frog and I regret it, mostly because it gets in the way of my seats. I would stick with a single hoop.

3) steering wheel is a quick mod, pick up the hub and get a 330mm wheel if thats your thing. I got a used sparco one on here for "cheap" (relative).

As for the track, biggest, best, and first "mod" is to run track pads. Fluid is not nearly as important as long as keep up with replacing it.

Oh and I will get that CG-Lock as well. When I finally upgrade to a better drivers seat, the passenger can use it lol.

As for the brakes, don't I need new rotors if I'm changing compounds? For instance I want to run carbotechs that emilio loves so much but he says to use them on fresh rotors. I have no idea of the history of the brakes, so I think I will be better off just replacing everything and knowing what I'm stopping with.

It depends on what brand/compound you're going with. Hawks for example, don't need fresh rotors from what I've heard. The Carbotechs need fresh rotors. If there is lots of life left in your existing rotors, you can have them turned to make them fresh so the pads can them bed properly with them. I don't know what MSM rotors cost - for an NA, rotors are super cheap ($25) so I usually didn't bother turning them I'd just get new ones. If the MSM rotors are more expensive, it may be more cost effective to just turn the existing ones.

The MSM just has sport brakes. Not sure what those rotors cost but they are not too expensive.

IIRC from 949's site, Sport rotors are about 2x the cost of NA rotors.

Correct; $24 vs $48 each for the fronts (standard NA8 vs Sport/MSM).

My .02:

a) the cg-lock, for me, was worthless. I could not get it to hold onto the buckle. I finally stripped it trying to tighten it enough. My buckle has a rounded contoured shape and it just couldn't get purchase on it.

I have been using the "click the seatbelt in, pull up real hard to tighten the lap belt, push all the way back in to the seat rest, feed the shoulder belt hardness in then jerk it to set the lock" method. Kind of like Leafy's, but without the seat movement. This keeps the shoulder belt snug across my chest with the inertial lock already engaged for the duration of an HPDE session.

b) brakes - if you're going to replace the fronts, get the Trackspeed kit. Rotors will be half the cost of your current rotors, but you probably won't have to change them for years.

c) Foamectomy - do this now. There are several guides. This improves the holding power of the seat significantly since you're sitting down in it instead of on it.

d) when you put the seat cover back on after the foamectomy, leave the part covering the seat a little loose. You don't want it snug or the leather will be supporting part of your weight and be under significant tension, which will accelerate any wear. IE, you may end up turning one of the creases in the seat into an actual tear. If you leave it a little loose the remaining foam takes the weight. You've made the seat cushion concave instead of convex and you have to leave the seat cover room to mold down into it.

e) I have Hard Dog's M2 Hardcore Hardtop Double Diagonal. It blocks rear view somewhat but is super strong. The diagonals make a good place for GoPro mounting.

At least one diagonal is required on your rollbar by NASA for HPDE and, I think, SCCA for whatever those assclowns call their equivalent. Mine has two. More bracing is bueno.

Sitting in the seat isn't that important. Just get a good seat, most people put some padding in the seat if its not comfortable. I have a "nice" fixed-back seat and daily'd it for the last year with no problem, but you probably don't want to dish out $800+ for seats.

I wouldn't get a harness bar. There is a hard dog with a bar across the back, just wrap the harnesses there. Unless you have odd seats, you will probably stay within the suggested harness angle.

Diagonals are a take away from a real cage where they normally have a "petty" bar or a diagonal that connects from the feet of the cage to the main/rear roll hoop behind the driver.. I am sure someone with more cage experience can elaborate more.

As for brakes, you don't NEED new rotors (I run carbotechs too). I got new rotors since I believed the site. I don't think its a bad idea, but its not required. you can rough up the rotors to clean off the old material (wire brush, angle grinder with a sanding wheel, etc.), or just spend some good time bedding them in.

If this is your second event, you will be using your brakes some, but probably not more than 70-80% of their potential (Unless you are just a natural?). It took me a good day or two of my instructor shouting at me for pussy braking before I got the hang of it and another 1 or 2 events before I had compressed my braking zones significantly.

EBC yellows are a good compromise pad that can be used on the street.

Thanks for starting this thread, I have a lot of these same questions. Woot.

On the topic of rollbars: where are you all finding the best price? I too am thinking the hard dog m2 with no diagonals, available through FM for $345. Anyone found anything cheaper? If I get a roll bar it will be for occasional track days, not for any series, much like chili's usage.

The price seems pretty much the same everywhere. Shipping is where the difference will be. Im now really narrowing down what I want. A black M2 Sport with double diagonals. The last question is I can get it with harness tabs or add $150 for the harness bar. I want to order tomorrow, so what should it be?

Just to keep things fair, I priced out at Goodwin Racing what I considered to be equivalent roll bars:

1. Bossfrog black Clearview Maxx
2. Harddog M2 Sport double diagonal

The Bossfrog combo (including padding, cover, seatbelt adapters, and shipping) comes to $724.

The Harddog combo (including padding, cover, seatbelt adapters, and shipping) comes to $624.

My only concern now is eventually using harnesses with a future seat upgrade. With the Bossfrog, they claim you can wrap it around some part of the bar (what part I don't know) and that will work. With the Harddog, they want you to add $40 harness tabs. What should I do? I don't know what is better.

I want to order by the end of Friday so I need to know which one to get.

^^This x 10.

The MSM is only a 'better' chassis because it has a bunch of heavy bracing. You will eventually want better brakes, a better turbo and to cut, hack and generally strip your track car down to 4 wheels and a motor with a big ass turbo. It would be a crime to do that to a clean MSM.

Take all of your focus and budget and put it into the 2000. You won't have a turbo this season, but you can get some of the basics done soon and work on your driving skills first. Next winter (or this summer if the NM tracks shut down in the heat?) install a better turbo that can handle the abuse for more than a few seasons. The MSM is the ultimate street miata so you should really leave it that way.

Please learn from my experiences. I took a nice MSM, bolted $10k worth of stuff on it only to find it was compromised as both a street car and track car. It took me an entire winter to undo most of the track oriented mods on the MSM and build a real track car with no compromises. The MSM is clean and healthy once again and I enjoy the track car significantly more than worrying about blowing up the MSM every session. On the flip side, I can drive the MSM to work on nice days without managing all the go fast bits that made it a PITA to drive anything other than flatout.

I recommend no diagonals, since this is a dual-purpose car. Plus, the 'no diagonals' rollbar is the lightest roll bar. :2cents:

I recommend the harness tab instead of the bar. It's easy to upclip your harness to convert back to street mode after a track day.
Extra added benefit: with no diagonals and no harness bar, you can fit a spare tire on the rear shelf. :bigtu:
(Down the road, when you get faster, you'll want to bring four more wheels & tires with you to the track. Your MSM can fit one in the trunk, two in the passenger seat, and one on the rear shelf.)

With my Hard Dog double diagonal you just get used to looking through the 3 triangles. I use my side mirrors more now as well.

^Yeah, I have a double diagnoal too. Hasn't presented a problem on the street of the track.

If you can't see through double diagonals, you aren't trying.

And again, at least one diagonal is required by NASA and SCCA.

I can't drive MSMs on track because I break them. Either the computer shits it's pants, the turbo falls off, the intercooler piping pops off, it overheats, the brakes are terribizzle, they're expensive, and heavy.

Ok I am definitely getting a double diagonal whatever. Does anyone happen to have pictures that show how harnesses attach with the tabs?

Don't you break everything though?

Hustler has a good point. I tore apart... I mean "improved" my MSM for track use last year. The MSM model is kind of a special car... and after you go down the path of modifying it... especially for serious track use... it takes away some of that "neat/special" street car virtue... the new car smell has definately worn off of my 2004 msm!

If you're going to go hog wild, then it's better to start with a plain Jane nb.

https://www.miataturbo.net/members/g...k-day-car-463/

The deed is done. I called Goodwin and ordered an M2 Sport with double diagonals and the bolt-in harness bar.

We'll both burn in hell.... kidding. I'm sure that a few nicely installed upgrades will really enhance your ride!

Take note that your lap belt likely won't retract well after the bar install... so be sure to ck each time you slam the door or the buckle will tear up the door panel.

No need to burn in hell. That bar will bolt right into your '00.

I agree with Mr. Hyde. The top two things you can do to make your car turn faster lap times are:

1. remove weight
2. sticky tires

The MSM is a nice car. Keep it that way. Turn the 00 into a track slut!

I can't resist.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1362181842

Alright I've ordered a seat and a rollbar with the bolt-in harness bar. I had a brain fart and didn't order a harness at the same time so now I need to get one, so what should I get? The seat I got is the Marrad one. It says it has a sub-belt opening but I'm not too familiar with the terminology so I think I need to get a 6 point?

Also I have about 2k to spend on further track prep before March 23rd. What else should I get?
Recap:

2004 MSM
ordered rollbar and harness bar
ordered seat
recent oil change
recent transmission oil change
recent spark plugs and wires
FM check valve kit
MR short shifter
FM intake, downpipe, and exhaust
BFG Sport Comp 2's 205/40/17 on stock 17x7's with 50% life left

I know I need:
harness
???
???

Help me spend 2k prepping my car for the the hot NM track days!

There's no way we're talking you into bolting this rollbar and seat into the '00 is there? :cry:

Anyway... You'll want to get better brake pads and consider TrackSpeed's backing plates to duct some air down there. The MSM is a bit porky and the brakes will take a beating both from mass and a novice driver.

Cooling will be an issue by summer. An oil cooler is mandatory for any turbo miata on the track (IMO). The FM kit is quite good for the price and if you hurry, you might be able to get it installed by the next track day. In the FM location on the front of the steering rack, you will need to get some air there to make it effective. Head back to the MSM forum and search for an article by millsj on his install and ducting - the best I have seen with the FM kit.

The MSM radiator is the best OEM radiator put in a miata and it will do pretty well until the plastic tank cracks - bail when it turns brown/green instead of black. That said, you will need to do some ducting work. Users millsj and joeereid have done good work on that. My build thread isn't really for an MSM so it isn't any better direction than any of the guys here have already done.

The Bilsteins on the MSM are badly over damped. Mazda was stupid here giving the car a 'stiff' ride on floppy ass street car springs. If you want to go cheap and dirty, get some ground control sleeves and heavier springs. This Thread has some great information on making the best of a bad setup. You have other infrastructure to spend money on before summer so this may be a good compromise. If you want to do it once and do it right, go Xida and be done with it but that would blow your entire budget.

That said, PLEASE consider turning the '00 into the track rat and leave the MSM a nice street car. If you continue down this path, in 2 years you will have a beat up MSM that isn't optimal for either purpose. If there is any way you can swing two cars, you should. :hustler:

Well the '00 is beat to hell and I don't think I could trust it to make it 300 miles to the track, race, and drive back. I really have my eye on a '01 600(!) miles away from me that would literally be exactly what I want. Less miles than my current MSM, cruise control, VVT engine, no ABS, no tupperware, and a retiree special interior (tan) that I wouldn't care at all to rip into. I honestly would 100% prefer to get that car instead of tearing up my MSM. The problem is I need to sell my current MSM and get enough money off of it to pay off the loan. I have this coming weekend off that I could go buy the 01 but then I would be back at square one with a car with no known maintenance and would it be safe to track a stock '01?

I could swing two cars but I wouldn't want a track miata and a street miata. I have a single car garage so I would rather have a miata in the garage and then buy a beater or something to get to work with and leave outside. I have no desire to own two miatas (even though I do currently lol) because I would want them garaged and I only have one space available. I technically could make the payments on the MSM and go buy the other car this weekend and it really wouldn't hurt me that bad. I just want to get enough out of selling my MSM to pay off the loan and have a bit left over to throw at the other one.

If I did indeed go buy that 01 and spare the MSM, what MINIMUM things would I need to do to it before I go track it on the 23rd?

I'm thinking put in a TSE radiator because the one in my 00 exploded one hot summer day and I'm sure the 01 I want to get would have the stock radiator still and tracking that would be no good.

I apologize for all the rambling.

Well, if you're going to have just one Miata, then perhaps the MSM is the one to have. Just really depends on what you want. Do you want to be making a payment on something you're hammering at the track? Could you sell the MSM and buy the other car outright without putting too much into it? Do you really want your "nice car" to also be your track car?

I know lots of guys are trying to talk you into not tracking the MSM. I say do what you want. Their advice is sound, but only you really understand your situation.

It's as safe to track a stock '01 as a stock MSM I would think...

I definitely don't want to tear up such a nice MSM, unless I have to. I could come close to buying the other miata outright. I really would prefer the 01 that I've mentioned for anything beyond basic mods because I wouldn't be tearing up a rare car. Any car I build as a "track" car MUST be driven to the track so they will never be extreme or anything.

As for the '01 being track worthy - change all the fluids and rubber bits, flush the brakes and install new pads. Check everything out as you go. If there are no bad leaks or obvious things, you should be fine.

You should upgrade your tires first, the ones you listed are shit. Why are you running a 17" wheel anyway?

17" is stock on the MSM. Agreed, 15" wheels need to be on the list although you could run the rest of the tread off what you have while you are getting started.

Rubber bits?

I was rather impressed with them. Am I that wrong? What should I be getting then?