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Old 02-27-2013, 11:10 PM   #21
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1) Driving on the stock seats sucks. If you have a lot of experiencing fabbing things, then buy a seat (you can try to sit in them, but it takes more than a 10-15 second sitting to get a real feel for the seat). Otherwise I would wait, I had a good bit of trouble floor mounting my seats, especially since I added my 6-point at the same time and it just so happened to be snap-in and the eyes can make contact with the seat or the mount if you put them too far out. Also centering the driver's side is tricky, you will probably have to hammer the tunnel if you decide to floor mount.

2) Get a rollbar. I prefer black also, but just get a good one. I have the double hoop boss frog and I regret it, mostly because it gets in the way of my seats. I would stick with a single hoop.

3) steering wheel is a quick mod, pick up the hub and get a 330mm wheel if thats your thing. I got a used sparco one on here for "cheap" (relative).

As for the track, biggest, best, and first "mod" is to run track pads. Fluid is not nearly as important as long as keep up with replacing it.
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Old 02-27-2013, 11:29 PM   #22
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Oh and I will get that CG-Lock as well. When I finally upgrade to a better drivers seat, the passenger can use it lol.
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Old 02-27-2013, 11:40 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Track View Post
1) Driving on the stock seats sucks. If you have a lot of experiencing fabbing things, then buy a seat (you can try to sit in them, but it takes more than a 10-15 second sitting to get a real feel for the seat). Otherwise I would wait, I had a good bit of trouble floor mounting my seats, especially since I added my 6-point at the same time and it just so happened to be snap-in and the eyes can make contact with the seat or the mount if you put them too far out. Also centering the driver's side is tricky, you will probably have to hammer the tunnel if you decide to floor mount.
I have absolutely no experience fabbing things. I live very far away from anything racing related, so it will be hard to find a place to get some seat time.

2) Get a rollbar. I prefer black also, but just get a good one. I have the double hoop boss frog and I regret it, mostly because it gets in the way of my seats. I would stick with a single hoop.
I've only considered single hoops. The one I'm looking at now is the Hard Dog M2 sport with no diagonals. I'll add the bolt-in harness bar when I get real seats. What reason is there to get diagonals?

3) steering wheel is a quick mod, pick up the hub and get a 330mm wheel if thats your thing. I got a used sparco one on here for "cheap" (relative).

As for the track, biggest, best, and first "mod" is to run track pads. Fluid is not nearly as important as long as keep up with replacing it.
As for the brakes, don't I need new rotors if I'm changing compounds? For instance I want to run carbotechs that emilio loves so much but he says to use them on fresh rotors. I have no idea of the history of the brakes, so I think I will be better off just replacing everything and knowing what I'm stopping with.
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Old 02-28-2013, 05:09 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilicharger665 View Post
As for the brakes, don't I need new rotors if I'm changing compounds? For instance I want to run carbotechs that emilio loves so much but he says to use them on fresh rotors. I have no idea of the history of the brakes, so I think I will be better off just replacing everything and knowing what I'm stopping with.
It depends on what brand/compound you're going with. Hawks for example, don't need fresh rotors from what I've heard. The Carbotechs need fresh rotors. If there is lots of life left in your existing rotors, you can have them turned to make them fresh so the pads can them bed properly with them. I don't know what MSM rotors cost - for an NA, rotors are super cheap ($25) so I usually didn't bother turning them I'd just get new ones. If the MSM rotors are more expensive, it may be more cost effective to just turn the existing ones.
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Old 02-28-2013, 05:26 PM   #25
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The MSM just has sport brakes. Not sure what those rotors cost but they are not too expensive.
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Old 02-28-2013, 05:57 PM   #26
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IIRC from 949's site, Sport rotors are about 2x the cost of NA rotors.
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Old 02-28-2013, 06:29 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by z31maniac View Post
IIRC from 949's site, Sport rotors are about 2x the cost of NA rotors.
Correct; $24 vs $48 each for the fronts (standard NA8 vs Sport/MSM).
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Old 02-28-2013, 06:32 PM   #28
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My .02:

a) the cg-lock, for me, was worthless. I could not get it to hold onto the buckle. I finally stripped it trying to tighten it enough. My buckle has a rounded contoured shape and it just couldn't get purchase on it.

I have been using the "click the seatbelt in, pull up real hard to tighten the lap belt, push all the way back in to the seat rest, feed the shoulder belt hardness in then jerk it to set the lock" method. Kind of like Leafy's, but without the seat movement. This keeps the shoulder belt snug across my chest with the inertial lock already engaged for the duration of an HPDE session.

b) brakes - if you're going to replace the fronts, get the Trackspeed kit. Rotors will be half the cost of your current rotors, but you probably won't have to change them for years.

c) Foamectomy - do this now. There are several guides. This improves the holding power of the seat significantly since you're sitting down in it instead of on it.

d) when you put the seat cover back on after the foamectomy, leave the part covering the seat a little loose. You don't want it snug or the leather will be supporting part of your weight and be under significant tension, which will accelerate any wear. IE, you may end up turning one of the creases in the seat into an actual tear. If you leave it a little loose the remaining foam takes the weight. You've made the seat cushion concave instead of convex and you have to leave the seat cover room to mold down into it.

e) I have Hard Dog's M2 Hardcore Hardtop Double Diagonal. It blocks rear view somewhat but is super strong. The diagonals make a good place for GoPro mounting.
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Old 02-28-2013, 06:47 PM   #29
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At least one diagonal is required on your rollbar by NASA for HPDE and, I think, SCCA for whatever those assclowns call their equivalent. Mine has two. More bracing is bueno.
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Old 02-28-2013, 08:14 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilicharger665 View Post
As for the brakes, don't I need new rotors if I'm changing compounds? For instance I want to run carbotechs that emilio loves so much but he says to use them on fresh rotors. I have no idea of the history of the brakes, so I think I will be better off just replacing everything and knowing what I'm stopping with.
Sitting in the seat isn't that important. Just get a good seat, most people put some padding in the seat if its not comfortable. I have a "nice" fixed-back seat and daily'd it for the last year with no problem, but you probably don't want to dish out $800+ for seats.

I wouldn't get a harness bar. There is a hard dog with a bar across the back, just wrap the harnesses there. Unless you have odd seats, you will probably stay within the suggested harness angle.

Diagonals are a take away from a real cage where they normally have a "petty" bar or a diagonal that connects from the feet of the cage to the main/rear roll hoop behind the driver.. I am sure someone with more cage experience can elaborate more.

As for brakes, you don't NEED new rotors (I run carbotechs too). I got new rotors since I believed the site. I don't think its a bad idea, but its not required. you can rough up the rotors to clean off the old material (wire brush, angle grinder with a sanding wheel, etc.), or just spend some good time bedding them in.

If this is your second event, you will be using your brakes some, but probably not more than 70-80% of their potential (Unless you are just a natural?). It took me a good day or two of my instructor shouting at me for ***** braking before I got the hang of it and another 1 or 2 events before I had compressed my braking zones significantly.
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Old 02-28-2013, 11:17 PM   #31
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EBC yellows are a good compromise pad that can be used on the street.
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Old 03-01-2013, 01:35 AM   #32
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Thanks for starting this thread, I have a lot of these same questions. Woot.

On the topic of rollbars: where are you all finding the best price? I too am thinking the hard dog m2 with no diagonals, available through FM for $345. Anyone found anything cheaper? If I get a roll bar it will be for occasional track days, not for any series, much like chili's usage.
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Old 03-01-2013, 02:35 AM   #33
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The price seems pretty much the same everywhere. Shipping is where the difference will be. Im now really narrowing down what I want. A black M2 Sport with double diagonals. The last question is I can get it with harness tabs or add $150 for the harness bar. I want to order tomorrow, so what should it be?
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Old 03-01-2013, 05:09 AM   #34
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Just to keep things fair, I priced out at Goodwin Racing what I considered to be equivalent roll bars:

1. Bossfrog black Clearview Maxx
2. Harddog M2 Sport double diagonal

The Bossfrog combo (including padding, cover, seatbelt adapters, and shipping) comes to $724.

The Harddog combo (including padding, cover, seatbelt adapters, and shipping) comes to $624.

My only concern now is eventually using harnesses with a future seat upgrade. With the Bossfrog, they claim you can wrap it around some part of the bar (what part I don't know) and that will work. With the Harddog, they want you to add $40 harness tabs. What should I do? I don't know what is better.

I want to order by the end of Friday so I need to know which one to get.
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Old 03-01-2013, 05:18 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
You're probably better off buying the cheapest Miata you can find to track, leave the MSM stock. You probably don't want to go down the "tracking an MSM road".
^^This x 10.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilicharger665 View Post
I already have a 2000 sitting out in front of my house. Why would I want to track it when the MSM already has a 6 speed, turbo, better chassis, and bigger brakes?
The MSM is only a 'better' chassis because it has a bunch of heavy bracing. You will eventually want better brakes, a better turbo and to cut, hack and generally strip your track car down to 4 wheels and a motor with a big *** turbo. It would be a crime to do that to a clean MSM.

Take all of your focus and budget and put it into the 2000. You won't have a turbo this season, but you can get some of the basics done soon and work on your driving skills first. Next winter (or this summer if the NM tracks shut down in the heat?) install a better turbo that can handle the abuse for more than a few seasons. The MSM is the ultimate street miata so you should really leave it that way.

Please learn from my experiences. I took a nice MSM, bolted $10k worth of stuff on it only to find it was compromised as both a street car and track car. It took me an entire winter to undo most of the track oriented mods on the MSM and build a real track car with no compromises. The MSM is clean and healthy once again and I enjoy the track car significantly more than worrying about blowing up the MSM every session. On the flip side, I can drive the MSM to work on nice days without managing all the go fast bits that made it a PITA to drive anything other than flatout.
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Old 03-01-2013, 12:00 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilicharger665 View Post
A black M2 Sport with double diagonals. The last question is I can get it with harness tabs or add $150 for the harness bar. I want to order tomorrow, so what should it be?
I recommend no diagonals, since this is a dual-purpose car. Plus, the 'no diagonals' rollbar is the lightest roll bar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilicharger665 View Post
With the Harddog, they want you to add $40 harness tabs. What should I do? I don't know what is better.

I want to order by the end of Friday so I need to know which one to get.
I recommend the harness tab instead of the bar. It's easy to upclip your harness to convert back to street mode after a track day.
Extra added benefit: with no diagonals and no harness bar, you can fit a spare tire on the rear shelf.
(Down the road, when you get faster, you'll want to bring four more wheels & tires with you to the track. Your MSM can fit one in the trunk, two in the passenger seat, and one on the rear shelf.)
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Old 03-01-2013, 01:39 PM   #37
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With my Hard Dog double diagonal you just get used to looking through the 3 triangles. I use my side mirrors more now as well.
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Old 03-01-2013, 01:41 PM   #38
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^Yeah, I have a double diagnoal too. Hasn't presented a problem on the street of the track.
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Old 03-01-2013, 02:01 PM   #39
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If you can't see through double diagonals, you aren't trying.

And again, at least one diagonal is required by NASA and SCCA.
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Old 03-01-2013, 02:26 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilicharger665 View Post
I already have a 2000 sitting out in front of my house. Why would I want to track it when the MSM already has a 6 speed, turbo, better chassis, and bigger brakes?
I can't drive MSMs on track because I break them. Either the computer ***** it's pants, the turbo falls off, the intercooler piping pops off, it overheats, the brakes are terribizzle, they're expensive, and heavy.
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