Harness and mounting
 

I need to get my harness and mounting supplies ordered right now. Need to get everything in one shot, and don't have time to wait for shipping if I forget something.

Anyone have pics and/or recommendations for a 6 point harness solution in a NB? My roll bar has tabs for the shoulder straps. My seat does not have slots for the sub belts, so I was planning on running them under the thighs and to the lap belt mounts, which as far as I can tell is SCCA approved. Over the winter, I'll get a better seat with sub harness slots in it (I don't want to cut this one so I can resell it easily). Car will only got to an autocross and drag strip until then. No street, no wheel to wheel. I will remount the sub belts later at 20° back when I get the new seat, in prep for STL next year.

How did you guys mount your lap belts? Plates? Eye hooks? I need spoon feeding. I like doing it myself, but can't afford the downtime if I order wrong. Event fees and hotel is paid $$$. School me.

Mounted eyes for the lapbelts in place of the OEM seatbelt locations. Use washers so you can engage all thread and the eye faces the right direction for the belt to snap into. I have a proper seat with sub belt slots so I don't know about that.

Thanks. I think I'm over complicating it, which is what I usually do when doing new things (I've never owned a car with harnesses before, and have never mounted them). Kind of funny with how many race cars I see and touch, but I've never paid attention to how the harnesses are mounted.

Anyway, this is how I see it happening...
-The shoulder straps mount to tabs on the roll hoop
-The lap belt outside can bolt into the stock seatbelt location
-The lap belt inside requires a new hole with backing plate in the trans tunnel
-I read that some of the SM guys run the sub belts under their thighs and out the side holes of the seat to the same locations that mount the lap belt. I don't see how the sub harness are long enough though. A quick measurement shows that a 24" G Force sub harness is 6" too short. Not sure about that yet, but I don't want to drill the bottom of the car until the new seat is in.

I plan to get a new seat with sub harness slots this winter so I can mount the subs under my hips, but I can't do that quite yet. The seat cost is factored into my challenge budget, so I'm stuck with what I've got.

Don't run the sub belts to the seat bolts. Bolt them directly to the floor if you can. I was able to put eye bolts on both lap belts and both sub belts since my seat isn't directly on the floor.

Root photo folder: http://s389.photobucket.com/albums/o...Miata/harness/

All of this purchased at I/O Port Racing
Item Purchased per seat: http://www.ioportracing.com/Merchant...tegory_Code=MH

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1316482369

You can see the backing plates I made in this photo; they went on the underside of the car and transmission tunnel...

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1316482369

All mounted...
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1316482369

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1316482369

I ordered all my eyeball bolts and snap hooks from http://www.apexperformance.net/. All the mounting things were G-Force and it shipped from Atlanta so you will probably get it in a day. I ordered the G-Force 6 point sub straps from them and got them in a day. They might be able to get you a full harness.

Awesome, thanks Chris. Does the eye bolt for the outside lap belt thread right into the boss for the factory belt?
Is this the harness you have?
http://www.apexperformance.net/CartGenie/prod-896.htm

Thanks for the lead Lars. I've contacted a couple places today, and they've told me the G Force is on b/o for 30 days +. I'll try those cats tomorrow.

Yep! I believe there's a standard thread-pitch and size for seat belts. For the backing plates I just picked up two strips of 1/8" thick steel and chopped it into 4"x3" plates and drilled a 5/16" hole through the center. I was stupid and didn't paint mine so they're rusting; I need to go back and either fix those or replace with aluminum plates.

The eye ball bolts should screw right into the factory points. I will try to pull out my pass seat this weekend and get some pics for you.

Bad @ss. Thanks guys.

You don't have to worry about it Lars, I got it. My car doesn't have a factory lap belt boss on the tunnel, that was an NA thing. I get to drill.
I'll order this one tomorrow with the mounting hardware from the same site. A couple bucks more than Chris' link, but it will all come from the same place.

Shoot them an email first and see if they offer an SCCA discount. I am almost positive that they do and it is about 10%.

Hey Chris where did you get that idea? :giggle: Do this for sure. This is exactly the way I did the groin belt and it works fine. The only mistake I made was getting a 5-pt instead of a 6-pt groin belt but I will be fixing that soon enough. When I do, my eyebolts will end up in the same location as Chris'.

I used the stock bolts for the lap belts, a bolt & 1" square of steel (1/8" thick) for the nut strap, and wrap the shoulder straps on the harness bar. If you're going to use eye-bolts some groups make you safety-wire them shut. I have to run a special set-up for my extremely large sex organs.

This is what im running in my car. I love it! Its the same price too. Either way i think you'll be happy with what you end up with.

http://www.corbeau.com/products/harn...arness_belts/#

Crow > *, cheaper, and only $50 for a reweb.

The first time you touch/use a set of Schroth belts, you will kick yourself for not spending the extra money on them. I had Willans belts in my car for a while, sold them and switched to Schroth belts, and I will never use anything else.

Care to elaborate? I've been perfectly happy with my Willans for the past couple of years and looking into an upgrade to 6pt. I've used a Schroth ASM system i a friends car and was not that impressed. (maybe because it's a failaids 4pt system)

X2. I like the Schroth adjusters more than the Willans, but the Willans belt material is about on par with the Schroth material. I like the Schroth cam release mechanism more too, but I'm not sure if Willans offers something similar (I only had one Willans). Both are worlds comfier than Crow, G-Force, etc. and are nicer to use. You are paying for that difference though. On the upside, my Schroth stuff never loosened up over the course of a session like my brother's G-Force belts ALWAYS do. The Schroth 5/6-points are much nicer than their 4-points too.

On a sidenote, the tabs the OP has on the harness bar look great! Best version of that I've ever seen. Its kind of scary to see how a lot of the NASCAR/Stock Car guys do it (little trapezoid of metal with one side welded directly to the bar). Apparently it does the job though. I am curious why you opted for this instead of the wraparound style?

G Force 6 point isn't in stock anywhere. :(
The lady at Apex Performance was very nice. I wish I could have made a purchase from her.

Stinky,
My cage builder and I thought that the mounting tabs on the roll hoop would be more secure than wrap around. I think it came out great.

Not even at safe racer?

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1316528345

If I were to do this again, I'd mount them right in front of the hump.

If you really need one in a hurry you can buy a 5-pt setup and then change out the parts on the groin belt.

Hey Ben,
I recently picked up a set of G Force 6 points at OG Racing. http://ogracing.com/catalog/2-Car/32...es/135-G-Force

OG is good people, I can vouch for them (not that any of you know me anyway :P )

Octupus Gardens. Good people.

Every time I use the G-Force belts in the rental I have to adjust my family jewels to prevent pinching. I've never felt the need to make the adjustment with the Schroth ProfiII6-H belts in the black car. The nut straps are designed to sit against your inner thighs, whereas all the other t/v-style belts just make a concerted effort to reverse puberty.

I've only used the G-Force belts in the Mid-Ohio school cars, but I think they are uncomfortable. If I do a harness in the Miata, it will be something else, for sure.

I'm gonna have to agree.
These G-Force 6-points are the only belts I have experience with, but the sub belts are pretty uncomfortable.

I just thought that came with the territory... I guess I'll need to check out different belts when mine expire in 2016. :laugh:

Any opinion on the Schroth Clubman vs the G Force? Better jewel comfort? The Profii looks awesome, but I can't do $350 on it right now.

Clubman is still better than G-force, and they're not too hateful on price. Somewhere around $170-180 right? I had one in my trackcar before I sold it. Never had a problem with Jim Dangle uncomfortability.

SafeRacer.com had the G Force in stock at $155, free FedEx, and 10% SCCA discount. Couldn't beat that!

i win!

so THAT'S what those were. I just put a set of Schroth Clubmans back in a customer's car, and wondered why the adjusters looked nearly identical to the G-Force adjusters.

The weave is close/the same, too. The camlock is a lot nicer, though.

Eh? The Clubman I had was almost identical to my Profi III.

The adjusters on my Profi II-6 are way, way nicer than the ones in the photo of the Clubmans.

Profi II:
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1316583278

Clubman:
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1316583278

I see what you're talking about. Looks like the Profi has 2" lapbelts as opposed to the 3" lapbelts for the Clubman too. Its been awhile since I've had my Profi, and I think they changed the design a bit since then (the substrap is very different from what I had; looks like a great design currently though). The design of the shoulder adjusters looks close to what I had, so I must have been remembering them wrong. Still, I stand by my statement of Clubman > G-Force, regardless of similarity in hardware appearance.

Just a minor comment, adjusters that you pull towards the lock is much easier to live with than adjusters that are pulled in the other direction.
I always struggle with tightening the side belts properly, not to mention the crotch ones.

It's soon time for a new belt anyway and then I'm happy to pay a premium to get it "right" (six years on the one I have now).

pull-up is a must in a miata.

Pull downs become pull ups when you pull it up from the outside of the seat. Works great.

I have two clubman harnesses. The difference is they use steel hardware which is cheaper. And its only certified for 2 years, instead of 5.

Its weird that you don't have the sub hole in the seat. Not sure how to deal with that, but its not a bad idea to just skip on them for the time being. Just make sure not to use the harness on the street. Or maybe you can run it over the front, but that seems pretty useless too... :dunno:

The seat was cheap. I think I paid $200 for the pair with corbeau sliders and brackets. Over the winter, it will get a new seat and the cage finished. I have no plans to drive the car on the street or make it street legal.

sorry, I read the thread last night and forgot that its not a street car. haha, I would just be hesitant to drill a set of sub holes now and then do it again in 2 months.

I'm in the same boat as you, I just tried to buy a clubman from IO Port, but they are on back order. They suggested this:

http://www.racedaysafety.com/racequi...ss-system.html

SFI and FIA. Any seen these before? Couldn't find much about them doing a quick Google search. I was going to do GForce, but now I'm second guessing that based on the reviews here.

G-force 6 points are on back order too. I think that makes the decision for ya ;)

I have my 6pt mounted just in front of the rear mounting "hump" using CAMS approved mounting plates. I don't know what size they are but they certainly look beefier than the large washers pictured above.

Also with the original (non-V) Sparco Sprint you can unpick a few threads holding the two sections together without cutting any of the cloth:

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1316674600

well, the "washers" go on the inside. there is still a required backing plate on the outside (bought/made separately). G-force plate is 4"x4". Scroth's is 4"x2" and has a nut welded on it.

Don't get me wrong - you can do a lot worse than the G-Force belts, especially at $179 or whatever they cost. For a budget belt, they do a great job, but if you are willing to splurge you'll notice a big difference between the G-Force belts and the Schroth belts.

Put it this way: If you are serious enough to have a HANS device, grab the Profi II-6H belts. Otherwise go with the G-Force belts and sell them for ~75% of retail in 2 years when/if you upgrade.

BTW - We only use pulldown belts. The pull-up adjusters are strategically placed to interfere with the seat in pretty much every Miata I've ever seen. I run the extra belt out through the lapbelt holes, then back up, and they turn into pull-ups then. :)

^+1. Its good to start off on. Its not a bad harness, you are generally paying for harness size (2" or 3"), weight, camlock mechanism, and the certification.

Its generally cheaper in the long run to go with a 5-year cert. belt (for example, clubman $200 for 2-year cert. but the avg. profi is $360 for 5-years, you can do the math), but since this is the first harness I am buying, I wanted to have the chance to change it out for something else in case I don't like it. It also gives me the chance to get rides in other people's cars and see how their harness of choice, which will help with future decisions.

With that said, I rode in a miata with G-force harnesses and they worked great. Just rubbed on my shoulder some (but they all will unless you get the padding).

$155 less 10% scca discount, free fedex, www.saferacer.com
Couldn't say no for that price.

The G-Force 6-point harness is the only one I've had (blue one in the photos on page 1) but I've been fine with it. There's been a time or two where the shoulder strap itches the side of my neck but I just adjust my shirt. Almost no issues with the sub-belts interfering with my junk; only one or twice I had to readjust. I'll give Schroth a go next time around.

The g-force belts in the rental car have a 5yr FIA certification.

oh, well I was going off there Harness Install instructions, but I guess they could be making a different 2 year belt:
http://www.gforce.com/pdf/Harness_Install_Info.pdf

Anyways, the Clubman at least is a 2-year cert.

You can get either with a 2-year or 5-year tag. The difference is SFI vs. FIA. Same belt usually, you're just paying for a different tag.

Belts were delivered and installed today. Kudos to FedEX for delivering on Saturday, and/or SafeRacer for shipping a Saturday deliver option at no expense to me.

Anyway, the sub belt is long enough to wrap under my thighs and out the lap belt holes and anchor to the lap belt points. And as far as I can tell, that is an SCCA approved mounting scheme. However I ended up carefully opening up a seam in the front of the seat (as suggested by a previous post) and ran the sub belt through it. It's still anchored at the lap belt mounting points. I used eye bolts and have the lap belts and sub belts each on snap mounts. The shoulder belts are bolted to the roll hoop with class 8 1/2" bolts.

Other than wanting to put some pads on the belts, they seem fine. We'll see. Oh, they have a 5 year tag.

+1 for harness pads, makes the cheaper belts feel great, especially if you put the more expensive pads on. I have Willans pads on my G-force, and G-force pads on my passenger side. Big difference.

So I'm looking to order the Schroth Racing SFI 16.5 Profi III-6 Harness and I see this....
sr 40015A None HANS $349.00
sr 40015YA None Double $529.00
sr 41015A Pull Up HANS $379.00
sr 41015YA Pull Up Double $559.00
sr 46015A Pull Down HANS $379.00
sr 46015YA Pull Down Double $559.00

I'm not an experienced harness guy so WTF do I get? what's with the huge price variances?

This:
http://www.apexperformance.net/CartGenie/prod-1575.htm

Unless you plan to use a HANS (or similar device), then you should get this:
http://www.apexperformance.net/CartGenie/prod-1576.htm

The doubles have two shoulder harnesses, and usually for racing regulations.

Oh, hey guys. Just doin' a little grave diggin'.


After spending some time searching in this thread and others, I am about to pull the trigger on two sets of the G-Force Pro 6-point camlock harnesses, in the pull-down variety. Where I am confused is on the mounting hardware.

The images for all of the various harnesses show standard bolt-ends. I am getting thrown off a little by RayvnX's post and talk of the eye bolts and clip-in bolt ends.

Am I correct in understanding that you replace the standard bolt ends with the clip-in bolt ends to use with the eye bolts? Is there a reason not to just use Grade 8 bolts with the standard bolt ends?

Or do the belts not actually come with any bolt ends and the pictures (of the harnesses) are deceiving?

This is on a pair of Sparco Rev seats, factory floor seat mounting brackets/bridges still in place. Driver seat is on a slider, the passenger seat will not be.

I recently became aquainted with safecraft belts. You have to call them their website is completely useless. But they will make belts custom to fit your car. I have no idea on price, but honestly this falls under the same argument as the schroth stuff. Just have a look.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1346293790

If I for some reason ever end up owning a formula car or a car that would go on a track, pretty set on buying these. Failing that scroth, because they're also amazing.

G-Force belts to come with normal bolt ends. Do you notice how far off the car he has the eye bolts?

Speaking of G-Force belts. I've only ever used older ones but the cam locks suck, never reset all the way. And on rare occasion get quite stuck (in the un-locked position thankfully). I'd rather go with crow at the price point.

I wouldn't bolt the bolt in brackets to the floor. If you are ever in a collision, the force would be normal to direction the load was designed to be applied. You can remedy this by purchasing the snap ends and an eyebolt that allows the sub belt to load in the intended direction.

Alternatively, I think you can use a u-bolt with a substantial backing plate if you're deadset on using the bolt in brackets. I would mount my harness this way if I was out of options, but it is easy to switch to the snap clip.

just my .02

I'm using G-Force and they come with regular eyes for bolts. I used the stock NA lapbelt hole for the outside lapbelt, drilled a hole for the inside one in the tunnel, and drilled for the other three as well. I used large steel backing plates behind every drilled hole (4x4 or 3x3, depending upon location) and thick grade 8 washers.

I am certain I would be killed by the force of an impact long before it reached a level of force in which the mounts would be ripped loose.

You used to be able to specify snap in or bolt in. I guess they standardized to bolt in now. You should still be able to purchase 2" and 3" snap hooks separately, but the price may get you towards what you'd spend on a higher end belt that comes with snap hooks.

I used eye bolts and snap hooks for the lap and crotch belts, and standard bolt in rings on the shoulder belts. I recall having to drill a hole for the passenger, inside lap belt. I used stock mounting points for both outside lap belts, and installed the driver, inside lap belt eye in place of the stock rear o2 sensor wiring.